Brexit negotiations starting tomoorow

You seem to find everything so funny ww which is surprising given that you and your family actually live in the UK, don't you want things to go well.....certainly doesn't sound like it.

That would also apply to you durhamjen

Now what is the MN term for those last two remarks?

We all want 'things to go well' Rar; it would be rather arrogant to think that anyone doesn't want that just because they don't agree with what you consider to be the best way to get it.

You seem to be saying that because you hold your particular opinion it must be right for the country - big ego!

dj don't know if you can find it but there is a translation of the Swiss paper Le Bund about us and Brexit. It is excellent!! Other grans might like to read it.

On German TV Davis said No Single Market and no Customs Union. He just stood there grinning and Barnier was furious as it seemed to be a waste of time for him just to hear this simple statement.
If that is really so then it should be over quite quickly. They have just to start on all the contracts which have been signed by the UK and unravel them. The folders stacked together take up several metres space. We were shown them on TV.
AS usual it will be the EU workers who have the worry of returning now or waiting till it all falls to pieces. Where is this world trade coming from? America? I can't see their cars becoming as popular as BMW and Mercedes.

You are talking rubbish GGM2 and not for the first time.
As a matter of fact I don't have a preferred method of acheiving Brexit, I leave that to people who understand all the ins and outs, and that doesn't include anyone here on GN.
So, I don't have an opinion on how to get the best deal, but what I see on here are sneering, derisory and laughing comments as if it doesn't affect all of us , and an almost wanting the UK to do badly so that they can say happily 'I told you so'.

ww yes that Swiss newspaper article is first clas - interesting to read an outsider's view of the mess we have got ourselves into

Is this it, whitewave? I could only get a link in the original German.

"If it weren't so serious, the situation in Great Britain would almost be comical. The country is being governed by a talking robot, nicknamed the Maybot, that somehow managed to visit the burned-out tower block in the west of London without speaking to a single survivor or voluntary helper. Negotiations for the country’s exit from the EU are due to begin on Monday, but no one has even a hint of a plan. The government is dependent on a small party that provides a cozy home for climate change deniers and creationists. Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary. What in the world has happened to this country?

Two years ago David Cameron emerged from the parliamentary election as the shining victor. He had secured an absolute majority, and as a result it looked as if the career of this cheerful lightweight was headed for surprisingly dizzy heights. The economy was growing faster than in any other industrialised country in the world. Scottish independence and, with it, the break-up of the United Kingdom had been averted. For the first time since 1992, there was a Conservative majority in the House of Commons. Great Britain saw itself as a universally respected actor on the international stage. This was the starting point.

In order to get from this comfortable position to the chaos of the present in the shortest possible time, two things were necessary: first, the Conservative right wingers’ obsessive hatred of the EU, and second, Cameron’s irresponsibility in putting the whole future of the country on the line with his referendum, just to satisfy a few fanatics in his party. It is becoming ever clearer just how extraordinarily bad a decision that was. The fact that Great Britain has become the laughing stock of Europe is directly linked to its vote for Brexit.

The ones who will suffer most will be the British people, who were lied to by the Brexit campaign during the referendum and betrayed and treated like idiots by elements of their press. The shamelessness still knows no bounds: the Daily Express has asked in all seriousness whether the inferno in the tower block was due to the cladding having been designed to meet EU standards. It is a simple matter to discover that the answer to this question is No, but by failing to check it, the newspaper has planted the suspicion that the EU might be to blame for this too. As an aside: a country in which parts of the press are so demonstrably uninterested in truth and exploit a disaster like the fire in Grenfell Tower for their own tasteless ends has a very serious problem.

Already prices are rising in the shops, already inflation is on the up. Investors are holding back. Economic growth has slowed. And that’s before the Brexit negotiations have even begun. With her unnecessary general election, Prime Minister Theresa May has already squandered an eighth of the time available for them. How on earth an undertaking as complex as Brexit is supposed to be agreed in the time remaining is a mystery.
Great Britain will end up leaving its most important trading partner and will be left weaker in every respect. It would make economic sense to stay in the single market and the customs union, but that would mean being subject to regulations over which Britain no longer had any say. It would be better to have stayed in the EU in the first place. So the government now needs to develop a plan that is both politically acceptable and brings the fewest possible economic disadvantages. It’s a question of damage limitation, nothing more; yet even now there are still politicians strutting around Westminster smugly trumpeting that it will be the EU that comes off worst if it doesn’t toe the line.

The EU is going to be dealing with a government that has no idea what kind of Brexit it wants, led by an unrealistic politician whose days are numbered; and a party in which old trenches are being opened up again: moderate Tories are currently hoping to be able to bring about a softer exit after all, but the hardliners in the party – among them more than a few pigheadedly obstinate ideologues – are already threatening rebellion. An epic battle lies ahead, and it will paralyse the government.

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier has said that he now expects the Brits to finally set out their position clearly, since he cannot negotiate with himself. The irony of this statement is that it would actually be in Britain’s best interests if he did just that. At least that way they’d have one representative on their side who grasps the scale of the task and is actually capable of securing a deal that will be fair to both sides. The Brits do not have a single negotiator of this stature in their ranks. And quite apart from the Brexit terms, both the debate and the referendum have proven to be toxic in ways that are now making themselves felt.

British society is now more divided than at any time since the English civil war in the 17th century, a fact that was demonstrated anew in the general election, in which a good 80% of the votes were cast for the two largest parties. Neither of these parties was offering a centrist programme: the election was a choice between the hard right and the hard left. The political centre has been abandoned, and that is never a good sign. In a country like Great Britain, that for so long had a reputation for pragmatism and rationality, it is grounds for real concern. The situation is getting decidedly out of hand.

After the loss of its empire, the United Kingdom sought a new place in the world. It finally found it, as a strong, awkward and influential part of a larger union: the EU. Now it has given up this place quite needlessly. The consequence, as is now becoming clear, is a veritable identity crisis from which it will take the country a very long time to recover."
______________

Yes!! Thanks dj

Oh dear it makes terrible reading doesn't it?

They recognise Mays serious limitations and Cameron as a cheerful lightweight.

It makes we to cry with frustration

The third paragraph is very apt, isn't it?

I think the entire piece is apt.

Me too WW

I dont believe that this can end in anything but disaster.

I just wish some tory had the guts to say so

Chris Grayling made an announcement on TV.

"David Davis has successfully pushed the EU national issue to the top of the list"



He obviously think we cant read as it was at the top alresdy and pushed firmly by Barnier

Grayling is a berk

Still going well isnt it?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/20/mark-carney-mocks-boris-johnson-warns-brexit-unlikely-land-cake/

I am loving Mark Carney's turn of phrase when he refers to "the extent Brexit will be a smooth path to the land of cake and consumption"

So not having our cake and eating it!

Oh yes!! Delicious wasnt it?

A neat turn of phrase beats a ton of blustering any day

Durhamjen Which source has the original?

Lovely to read such a clear statement of the truth from an educated intellectual -the kind that Boris thinks are so dangerous.

Ah the 'Cake and eat it ' comment raises it's head again.

Carney probably made his comment referring to ' Cake and consumption ' (Cake and eat it!) knowing full well it would be the media line that would keep his speech in play. Also it aligns with the 'Cake and eat it ' comments that came initially from European Leaders such as Merkel, Junker , Tusk who have repeatedly stated we " Cannot have our cake and eat it " over the referendum vote to leave the European Union.

Figures of Speech are used to create a subliminal message and they work well , obviously.

What can one say - absolute chaos!! Mark Carney said this way back and his prophesy is coming to pass. What makes me very cross is the way the Eurosceptic elements in the government go on about their mandate to progress to the cliff edge. What don't they get?

The UKIP vote collapsed even in the few places where they stood. That must say that a lot people have changed their minds since the referendum. Yes 80% did vote for the two main parties but that doesn't equate to 80% in favour of Brexit. They need at least to consider that Brexit is not for the good of the country. They must be prepared to admit that a soft Brexit is most likely and that is like continuing membership with all the costs and none of the benefits.

Anyone else think the Queen might be conveying a subtle message?

Yes!!!!!! So brilliant. I think May has totally pissed Her Maj off.