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What should be done about Public Sector pay?

(515 Posts)
GracesGranMK2 Sun 16-Jul-17 18:09:49

I think my second question would be - just who gets public sector pay these days with outsourcing, etc.

durhamjen Sun 23-Jul-17 12:22:33

Of course they will try that, primrose.
Again, change the law. Country by country reporting is coming in in the EU. Why not in the UK?
Do you want to live in a country with the most unequal pay in the G20?
I don't.

Iam64 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:26:20

How any teachers earn 36,000.
Teachers and many other public servants worked hard to qualify, they will have considerable debts as a result.
i agree with MaizieD that many of the attitudes in this discussion would fit nicely in a novel by Charles Dickens.
Its sickening to see so many illinformed and inaccurate statements being made by those who don't seem to have any respect for our teachers, nurses, firefighters, police officers, paramedics and many others who serve our country to the best of. Their ability.

Iam64 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:27:54

Edit - MaizieD said Victorian mill owners. i added the Dickensian comment

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:29:48

durhamjen change the law how? How do you differentiate between a legitimate small business and someone who's in business to avoid a salary multiple cap?
This pay cap has not been thought through in my opinion, but I am happy to learn about how it could work.

durhamjen Sun 23-Jul-17 12:32:11

Change the law the same way you change any other law, through parliament.
How else do we bring in laws?

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:35:42

Iam64 I think the only ill informed part has been people posting fake numbers.

How is £36k an unreasonable figure to use to illustrate teachers salary? It's just over the salary quoted as average for 10 years experience by the Guardian.
www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/2016/nov/03/are-englands-teachers-being-paid-enough

Before you start with the Dickensian snips and calling others 'ill informed', do your homework.
3/10.

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:36:16

durhamjen but how would it be changed?

devongirl Sun 23-Jul-17 12:36:33

I think I must be missing something here, but skimming through the article citing the figure of about £12k, I can't see any mention of it being annual full-time salary. It seems much more likely to me that it includes people working part-time/zero hours; in which case the comparison of teachers earning £36 being 3x average salary is a spurious one..

Iam64 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:39:49

Ooo snipey - I stand by my views on public service and on the unpleasant comments s directed at them by some posters on this thread.

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:40:41

devongirl it was an article posted by GracesGran

durhamjen Sun 23-Jul-17 12:41:33

By bringing in a bloody law on it to be discussed and voted on in parliament.
I don't expect it to be done in the next few weeks, however.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/22/100-tenants-a-day-lose-homes-rising-rents-benefit-freeze

Don't you think that 100 tenants a day losing their homes because of low pay and benefit caps is obscene?

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:43:05

Iam64 and I stand by my opinion that it's OK to use comparisons to illustrate how impossible some fake numbers are.
I have not made any unpleasant comments at public sector workers, but I think everyone knows that.

durhamjen Sun 23-Jul-17 12:43:45

Devongirl, I seem to recall it did include part-timers earning about £5,500 on average.
However, if I am wrong, I am sure primrose will correct me.

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:44:44

durhamjen what has that got to do with a salary cap? I genuinely can't work it out.

MaizieD Sun 23-Jul-17 12:45:31

I posted an explanation already - what don't you understand about fake numbers?

Fake numbers does not explain why you said that public sector workers should take a pay cut. If you were being ironic why don't you just say so? Don't be coy...

durhamjen Sun 23-Jul-17 12:48:18

voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/01/23/average-wages-for-90-per-cent-of-british-workers-are-less-than-half-what-youve-been-told/

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:51:23

MazieD Yes it does. I was replying to a post that was saying £12k a year is an average salary. What I don't understand is why you're unable to grasp this.

durhamjen Sun 23-Jul-17 12:51:31

www.equalitytrust.org.uk/uks-extreme-inequality-should-be-source-national-shame

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:51:59

Thanks durhamjen that's the article that started all this

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 12:52:41

Voxpolitical one, not equality trust one, for clarity

durhamjen Sun 23-Jul-17 12:54:48

www.paycompare.org.uk/pay-multiples/

For anyone who wants to see which companies/councils have listed their pay ratios.

durhamjen Sun 23-Jul-17 12:56:22

The list also tells you if they are accredited living wage employers.

durhamjen Sun 23-Jul-17 12:58:24

"What is grotesque is the next number that should shock everyone. The average pay of the next 90%, (by stripping out all earnings of the top 10%, including the 1% and 0.1% groups) leaves an annual income of just £12,969. Yes, you read that right. Stripping out the top 10% of average pay, leaves just £12,969 average pay for the remaining 90% of the population."

Equality Trust quoted in the Voxpolitical article.

Primrose65 Sun 23-Jul-17 13:00:42

durhamjen Just look through the thread and you'll understand why that is totally meaningless. This is really going round in circles. sad

MaizieD Sun 23-Jul-17 13:32:09

Oh, please forget the figures*Primrose*; just explain why you said that public sector workers deserved a pay cut, and this: it supports my view that public sector workers are overpaid.

Neither of these statements has any relevance to the figures unless you believe, on ideological grounds, that the figures show public sector workers are overpaid. Or you were being ironic. Which is it?

I am asking because you appear to be making a value judgement/ expressing your opinion on public sector pay.