Jews and racism

Since when was using the word Jew antisemitic?

I don't understand dbDB77 - the OP was started because of concern about Jews in the UK today and how some feel that they are subjected to racism to the extent that they are thinking of leaving - which to me seems to be a shocking state of affairs.
It would be difficult to discuss the problem without mentioning the word Jew or Jewish surely.

Your posts are very interesting Rosyapple, thank you.

And, of course, someone who is a 'friend of Hamas' but not actually living in a country may have a different viewpoint from someone who sees what is happening on a daily basis from a personal point of view.

Thanks Jalima and Lemongrass, much appreciated.

It seems there are people who point blank won't accept that many reputable bodies in the world - including the UN and Amnesty International - have reported on serious breaches of international law committed by the Israeli government.

Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, reported in 2002:

"Israel holds the record for ignoring United Nations Security Council resolutions, according to a study by San Francisco University political science professor Steven Zunes.

" .....Israel leads the list. Since 1968, Israel has violated 32 resolutions that included condemnation or criticism of the governments' policies and actions"

This situation continues - The Independent 2016:

"Jerusalem’s planning committee is expected to approve the construction of hundreds of homes in east Jerusalem, despite a UN Security Council resolution condemning Israeli settlements across the Green Line as a “flagrant violation” of international law.

"The Jerusalem Local Planning and Construction Committee is expected to approve permits to build 618 new homes in Jewish neighbourhoods across the Green Line on Wednesday, Haaretz reports.

" ....... It [the Committee] will debate plans for 2,600 new homes in the neighbourhood of Gilo, 2,600 in the Givat Hamatos neighbourhood, and 400 in the Ramat Shlomo neighbourhood.

"........ The resolution’s immediate impact appears to be largely symbolic, but Israel fears it could open the door to an increase in international steps, including economic measures. Much of the international community considers the settlements illegal or illegitimate and an obstacle to peace."

It is not anti-semitic/racist to disagree with Israeli government policies, any more than it is racist to disagree with the policies of the rulers of Saudi Arabia or Zuma's conduct in South Africa. It is not anti-semitic to point out that Israel has continued to flout these resolutions because it has had the consistent support of the US, apart from a small "blip" during Obama's tenure.

The number of anti Israel resolutions in the UN is way out of proportion compared to those against any other country.
Many of these resolutions are completely untrue - and while the UN wastes their time on these, they say little or nothing about real atrocities going on elsewhere - such as Syria,, Sudan and Chechniya. So no, some of us have little faith in the moral rectitude of the UN these days.

Here here, Rosyapple189
And where was their moral compass in Rwanda and Bosnia.

No point in saying hear, hear when it's not true.
Here's a list of the UN resolutions from 2016 to present day.
Syria appears a lot.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolutions_2301_to_2400

And petra there is a world of difference between trying to oversee a civil war situation like that of Bosnia and Rwanda and asking a government like that of Israel to stop abusing human rights.
You may have 'sympathy' for Palestinians Rosyapple but it doesn't include restoring their freedom of movement does it? And your outright denial of what many have reported as happening in Gaza- in spite of many published accounts by UN observers of the situation isn't believable. Perhaps you can show me evidence of all the medical aid Israel has sent there, or of the appropriation of this by Palestinian leaders, or is this in fact just propaganda you have been fed?
It isn't personal to question why someone would post such racist information. I fully accept that there have been problems with Hamas, but denying a whole country access to the outside world isn't really going to solve the problem. We tried many such measures in Ireland for over 600 years and eventually had to accept the establishment of the Republic of Ireland after much bloodshed and death of course.

I absolutely agree with you Rosyapple, it is extraordinary how a country like thriving China is almost never criticised for its appalling human rights record? Venezuela? and many others who are not war torn but nevertheless have awful records are rarely criticised! (must be careful not to put two !)(!) and yet Israel is vilified for the very fact of existing. Of course it's not perfect, what country is? but it is tiny, it is threatened on all fronts, it is vulnerable and apart from the U.S., virtually friendless, which inevitably makes it nervous.
I too wonder at the lack of criticism of Egypt who also block Gaza?!
Bearing in mind the centuries of persecution suffered by people for the 'sin' of being a Jew, culminating in the holocaust, which was in my lifetime so not THAT long ago, the jewish people most certainly needed somewhere to call home, where they could be safe. The reaction to the state of Israel by a good proportion of the world certainly confirms this.

So who is at fault for one in three Jews to think of leaving the UK in only three years? Israel, Pakistan, the U.N. or the far right movements ?

Brexit. It allowed people the right to criticise anyone who is seen as not white British, and tell them to go home.

But many Jews are white British

I can hardly believe the the last comment from durhamjen!

Yes Annie, many (most) Jews in Britain are white British.

Small minded people have been criticising those they see as different from themselves for centuries dj. Brexit hasn't allowed people the right to be racist, sadly racism is always present.

What has happened since Brexit IMO is an increased reporting of racism in order to undermine the decision to leave the EU and tarnish all who voted to leave with a racist brush.

With the constant rhetoric about leavers being racist and people from other countries, races and religious convictions not being wanted in the UK, is it any wonder that some believe it to be so.

Yes, most Jewish people in the UK are 'white British', but I think that what DJ meant was that Brexit has lifted up a few stones and let the racists out. Not everyone who voted Brexit is racist of course, and I do not wish to derail this conversation into a Brexit discussion, BUT, sadly,there are many reports of ugly, racist behaviour against black, Eastern European, Jewish, Muslim people. Some ignorant people, egged on by the likes of Farage felt that Brexit mean they no longer had to be 'politically correct' and could express their feelings. The far right is never far away as we have seen in recent demonstrations in USA, I am not sure of the facts and ins and out of the Labour party anti-semitism allegations to be honest, but from where I am standing Corbyn isn't doing much to robustly deny it, or in fact robustly do anything for that matter. But I digress

Egypt plans to open the Rafa crossing twice a month. It has opened it in the past to allow people unable to return to Gaza and stranded in Egypt to return home.
The World Health Organisation said in 2010
In 2010, the Rafah crossing into Egypt, which does not require Israeli travel permits, became an increasingly reliable route for access to Egyptian medical centers for referral

All of these factors hindering referrals compromise patient access to health services, which is an essential element of the fundamental right to health and, as such, protected by international human rights law and international humanitarian law Israel is a state party to the International Covenant for Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and is therefore obligated to observe its provisions protecting the Right to Health
Every effort should be made to address the factors that undermine the delivery of health care, and to ensure that patients who need to access hospitals outside of Gaza can do so quickly, easily and in as dignified a manner as possible

The idea that there are good or even adequate health care provisions in Gaza is completely false.

The rise of a far right movement undoubtedly has marked a rise in all racist incidents including anti-semitism. It is difficult to counter the unfounded and incredible beliefs these groups espouse but actually dealing with the situation in Gaza would help to remove one of the props of these organisations and therefore reduce recruitment.
It is in any case an abuse of human rights that needs to be dealt with. Professing to support human rights and wanting to combat anti-semitism but supporting the abuse of another group of people is in my opinion applying double standards.

There has always been racists there always will, nothing will change this, Prattle on about brexit, the U.N. etc, it comes down to human nature, .

Doesn't mean it all stems from hate , fear plays a large part regards immigrants and a desire to protect one's home land.

I can remember being so angry when our PCC had to discuss a request from a group of English people complaining that we had one service a month in Welsh and they couldn't take part, I admit I wanted to tell them to learn Welsh .

lam64 and lemongrove - I've heard that kind of thing from Arabs/Muslims too.
Eldest son lives in Kuwait and I've visited there twice. They have a non-religious Arab friend - I had an interesting discussion with him once about the similarities and differences - both nations are semitic, their languages are alike.
The most striking thing he told me was in the story of Abraham told by God to sacrifice his 1st born son their version of the OT (which he read at school) it was Ishmael who was offered, not Isaac.
So that's why they claim the Holy Land as theirs.

Trisha, there are gaps in your ignorance. To help you out, here's just one of the reports about Israel's aid to Gaza. There are so many more, it's extremely well documented. www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-humanitarian-aid-to-the-gaza-strip. As you see, tons of essentials, every day. I may remind you too, that Israel is a democracy with a very free press and media, representing all points of view. It's also so small that any attempt at 'propaganda' would go round in no time. Friends of mine have, for instance, family members who work on these humanitarian trucks. You might note, too, they go in every day. Not twice a month as in Egypt's case. There are, too Gazan workers who enter Israel for work every day. I'm afraid it's you who is the one being fed propaganda.

trisher forget all these 'far right' fairytales , it's the Labour Party that is being talked about , left wing anti-semitism not far right.
Also allow others who have lived there for a long time like Rosyapple their say without constant arguements from you because you imagine that you know better.
British Jews are white and British durhamjen and you wouldn't know who was and who wasn't, should you ever want to.

I am a British born Jew. My surviving ancestors had escaped from a profoundly hostile Europe. Am now 65 but when 16 I made the decision (in discussion with my friends) to integrate but not assimilate and this I believe is what I've managed. I have been blessed with wonderful friendships, colleagues and good neighbours of many faiths and ethnicities.

Although a member of a synagogue I haven't been in years. But reading this thread has chilled me to the bones and I am now resolved to form closer day-to-day ties with the Jewish community. I hope it will help me feel safer.

I hope so too Bubbe and what a pity that you should need to though.

It's a diversion lemongrass , as a Labour Party member I am ashamed that 83% of Jews questioned felt as they did about the party.