Jews and racism

Rosyapple189 Thank you for the link I read it with interest and then compared some of the figures with the WHO (who I am sure you will agree have no reason to be partisan in this matter) and found great discrepancies. One of these is of course because the figures you presented for medical treatment include anyone accompanying a patient, which makes the amount of medical help seem larger. I also prefer to believe the WHO when it regards the medical situation in Gaza

WHO appeals for US$ 4.5 million for Gaza health response, mobilizes US$ 360 000 in emergency funds

17 July 2017 – Electricity cuts and continued shortages of medicines and medical supplies in the Gaza Strip are severely restricting the access of 2 million people to critical medical care, WHO has warned. At least 30 hospitals, 70 primary health care centres and a blood blank are at risk of full or partial closure due to continued power outages and not enough fuel or spare parts for back-up generators.

If you would like to read more
www.who.int/hac/crises/international/wbgs/en/

I wonder what percentage of the Labour Party feel that people in Gaza deserve proper human rights?

lemongrass next time there is a BNP or English Defence League meeting in Newcastle why not come and hear what they really say? Then you will know what right wing racism is.

I too am very sorry that you feel as you do Bubbe, but regretfully understand it. Perhaps it is good that this thread has opened your eyes to what is a deeply unpleasant streak of anti semitism running through this country in certain quarters. At least you are under no illusions and can seek safety where you can.

It isn't anti-semetic to want proper human rights for Palestinians. Many Jews dislike the regime in Israel. If Bubbe would like to say what he or she finds to be anti-semitic on this thread I will undoubtedly apologise for anything said. But I maintain that people who believe in human rights wholeheartedly believe in them for all sections of humanity from the oldest to the youngest, regardless of faith, colour or national origin and some of the people who post ideas on here certainly exhibit no such beliefs.

Then Trisha , let's start with our own party before we sort out Palastine, Israel and the U.N.

Then let's agree that criticism of Israel is not anti-semetic as long as what it is seeking is proper human rights for all people and does not blame the policies and the restrictions placed on Palestinians on all Jews.

It's a pity that Hammas can't altered its avowed intention to demolish the state of Israel, murder all its citizens and all Jews world wide, it could help!!!!. Having a government with murderous intentions living next door would make any state a little anxious I'd have thought! I would also have thought that Egypt would have been severely censored y the UN and others and Egyptians vilified for only opening its border with Gaza twice a week! What's wrong with everyday like any other country?! No doubt there is a good and approved reason! Why doesn't the UN severely criticise other trading countries over their lamentable human rights records, why is it only Israel?!

Calling .hamas friends must have caused damage Trisher , and this is not about .palastine it's about the Labour Party

Bubbe - welcome to the discussion.
I don't know where you live, but please don't be too scared about the current racism (due to Brexit, I think.)
As I've mentioned before, we lived for 10 years in the Gateshead orthodox community. Mostly not Chassidic like some parts of London, but obviously Jews.
Being born in the NE I was glad to see that on the whole the local Geordies were tolerant and accepting. And still are from what I've heard.
We left only because we sought a less rigid form of Judaism. After our lives as gentiles for 40+ years.

We still are, TriciaF. I've lived in the area for most of my life and personally have never heard of anyone who doesn't accept Jews are part of our area and respects their beliefs and customs. May it always be so.

I have lived in the North East for over 40 years and I have never seen such dreadful scenes as some of those in the city centre lately. I don't think most Geordies are either racist or anti-semitic but there is now a group of extreme right wingers who are very vocal. It is very uncomfortable to hear them shouting at the crowds of multi national shoppers. It isn't every week, but when it happens it is horrible.
The Gateshead community has always been treated with consideration and its privacy respected. I do worry that this could change. And I do feel that all the discussion about anti-semitism in the Labour Party is in fact a diversion, distracting us from the growth of right wing extremism. Instead of worrying over the finer points of definitions some real condemnation of the messages being promoted by these organisations would help. And when there was a march recently it was the members of left wing organisations who turned up to challenge the racists.

A basic question. Other than when people are entering a synagogue, how would you know they are Jewish, unless they are very orthodox of course? My daughter was unaware that one of her schoolfriends was Jewish until she was invited to her Bat Mitzvah. When she ate here, she said she was vegetarian which presumably avoided any difficulty with dietary laws. Just curious as to how anyone knows their neighbours are Jewish unless they tell them? Other than in Orthodox communities, there are no clothing details to identify religion, unlike with Muslim neighbours perhaps.

The point I was making was that if non Orthodox Jewish people are not 'obvious' so to speak, how is the persecution manifesting itself? It is not going to be like the ghastly incidents of people screaming in the face of Muslim women who are wearing the Hijab. Why would my Jewish neighbour feel threatened when she pops to the Co-op?

I echo nigglynellie's post and feelings bubbe. She has expressed exactly what I think.

GillT57 ... the name sometimes gives it away, mine does, but then none of us walk round with name badges so maybe that's irrelevant too.

well my point exactly Lillie. I know a Greenberg who is not Jewish, and several Whites and Golds who are not Jewish despite having what are supposedly Jewish names.

how is the persecution manifesting itself?

Like GillT57 I'm wondering this.

Is it that anti-Zionism is now being unequivocally equated with anti-semitism?

The persecution I'm aware of involves swastikas painted on synagogues, Jewish gravestones and graveyards wrecked, children at jewish schools being bullied, having abuse hurled at them.
The point about Jewish people not being easily identified unless they're "very orthodox" made by blood run cold. Of course, the Nazi's found a way of identifying whether men were Jewish didn't they.

One reason I'm against religious schools is that they can identify children as [insert religion of your choice]. For instance, I and my siblings were sent to Catholic schools. Our uniforms told people that we were Catholic or at least at a Catholic school. Now, why would anyone need to know that?

While the Nazi method of literally labelling Jews is gross, what gill said about not knowing someone is Jewish unless they told you is true.

I had an Equadorean friend in Oxford. He was not the typical colouring (skin, hair, features, etc) of either descendents of Spanish conquerors or of indigenous South American people. I never said anything about this but wondered what his ancestry was, as you do out of curiosity. One day he told me that his father was of "Spanish Catholic" heritage and his mother "German Jew". I said, "Oh" and nodded as it kind of explained that part of his appearance that seemed north European.
His reaction was: "Is that all?"
Er, yes.
Seems he often got remarks he'd rather not have heard when people heard about the Jewish bit.

So that would imply that the Jewish religion and lifestyle that attract hatred and not the actual people. I come back to the point that is it not their Jewishness which is targeted, or is that just historical?

X post Baggs but agree GillT57 was talking about taking people at face value.

I don't know. I don't think I'll ever understand it. It's said that the Jews killed Christ and that's why Christians hate Jews. Christ was a Jew too so...

Nope, I'll never understand pig ignorant prejudice. It's almost as if a certain type of person in some way 'needs' some other 'out' group to hate.

"And I do feel that all the discussion about anti-semitism in the Labour Party is in fact a diversion, distracting us from the growth of right wing extremism. "
I agree, Trisher.

"It's almost as if a certain type of person in some way 'needs' some other 'out' group to hate."
That's what I think, Baggs.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are being abused and assaulted, not just Jewish people. The BBC reported in October last year that these sorts of crimes had risen by 41% following the EU referendum:

"There have been reports of Muslim women being verbally abused and spat on, said Ash Siddique, secretary of the Al-Madina Mosque in Barking, east London.

".... strong anecdotal evidence supports the view that there was also a genuine rise in crimes targeted at ethnic minorities and foreign nationals: the Brexit vote appeared to unleash something in people - they felt they had a licence to attack Polish migrants and insult Muslims.

"Separately, one of the most striking features of the annual figures is a 44% rise in hate crimes directed at people with disabilities; the numbers have doubled in four years."

So, disabled people are also the target of vile abuse and vicious attacks and yet anti-semitism is being presented as something separate from other forms of discrimination perpetrated against a multitude of different groups and, in my view, is being used to try and shut down discussion about, and disagreement with, the policies of the Israeli government.

And I do feel that all the discussion about anti-semitism in the Labour Party is in fact a diversion, distracting us from the growth of right wing extremism. "
I agree, Trisher.
I agree too, but then this thread was only started in order to criticise the Labout party.