Jews and racism

"Hatred of Jewish people within Europe probably stemmed from them being moneylenders, from doing it in a small way to a big way, also very successful merchants."

This comment reminds me of Shylock in Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice lemongrove, so yes, Jews have always been stereotyped as rich, scheming, unpleasant moneylenders, but what other choice did they have?
Similarly today there is a hatred of Jews simply because they are Jewish. It's their very Jewishness that makes them feel unsafe, but would they be prepared to leave the rich and prosperous areas of London to go and live somewhere poorer, but safer like mid Wales? I doubt it.
I don't hate Jews, but I find it difficult to grasp why Jews are often so disgruntled and complaining, it's almost like attention seeking.

You are completely right, Niggly. There never was a state called Palestine. The name refers to the Philistines who settled in the plain between the Med and current day Jordan in 12C BCE. The Philistines were not from Arabia, they were Greek.
For those who still believe in a state called Palestine - what was their government, their constitution, their laws? And as far as the UN recognition of so-called Palestine by '135 countries' - no, this was only 'de facto' - they could not recognise it as a legal entity as it isn't one. It was merely a cynical move by the UN bloc. The notion that there was a country called Palestine which existed for centuries is false.

So the UN has got it wrong, has it?
You'd better tell the UN.

Why are the Jews disgruntled, I suggest one reason could be that a little over 70 years ago approximately 6 million Jewish people were murdered by the Nazis. Jewish people are now naturally very cautious about their place in the world, and their safety. The survivors of this genocide then wanted a homeland, a country where something such as the holocaust could never happen again. I don't blame them.

Trisher, if you don't want to accept what I say about equality in Israel and persist in referring to 'one or two positions of importance' that's up to you. However, as I have lived there for more than 19 years I might just know a little more about the situation than yourself.
Israel sends many tons of medical supplies and other essentials into Gaza every week. You don't mention Egypt which has a blockade at Rafaa crossing, I note. The reason for regulating what goes into Gaza by both countries is that some items, such as cement (which still goes in) have been used to construct tunnels into Egypt and Israel as well as weapons.
Gaza has had billions of dollars thrown at it by the world, but much has been misappropriated by its leaders. They still manage to have markets and shops bulging with goods and food, a couple of 5 star hotels and a shopping mall. They are far from starving and are known as the fattest people in the Middle East.
As for living in Gaza -are you having a laugh? Hamas has stated that even if there is peace, Jews will never be allowed to live there. While Israel has 180,000 Israeli Arabs with full citizen rights.

Durhamjen, A lot of folk have been telling them, but they continue to ignore the truth. As I said, the UN has a bloc comprising the Arab countries and the South American countries. and they vote for each other's motions. Not in accordance with the UN's original ideals, I'm afraid.

Lillie , many Jews have already left London and have moved to Manchester, where there is already a large Jewish community. Unfortunately, there have been several attacks against them in the streets of Manchester and at their synagogues; hence the reason that they now have guards patrolling the grounds. So your assumption that they would not be willing to move from rich and prosperous areas, to cheaper areas, is unfounded. But the threats and violence follow them.
I'm surprised that you find it "difficult to grasp why Jews are often so disgruntled and complaining, it's almost like attention seeking"; do you think that maybe having had 6 million Jews slaughtered during WW2 might have some bearing on their "disgruntlement"? Do you suppose that, seeing antisemitism rising across Europe, and in the UK, that they might be feeling nervous and wondering where they can go to next to feel safe? Of course, you may be right. Maybe they're just "attention seeking".

A neighbour said to me seriously recently, that the Jews are in an international conspiracy to take over the whole Middle East. He added that it's wrong that Israel became a Jewish state after WW2 because "it is written" in the Bible, that the Jews must always wander and never have a homeland.
This is someone with a University degree. He is a Muslim. We have real problems don't we.

We do Iam64 and a breadth of formal education appears to be no indicator of stupidity it would seem.

Rosyapple189 I realise that you have more personal experience of Israel but I also read into your posts a complete lack of any sympathy or concern for anyone who claims Palestinian citizenship. There are abuses of power by Israel there are abuses of human rights. The fact that you refuse to recognise these and dismiss the UN as irrelevant says more about your prejudices than anything else. I don't deny that Israel may have done some acts of charity in Gaza but it is the fact that the basic freedoms we know as human rights are denied people there. I don't approve of this but it seems you do. Prejudice is never limited to one group of people and it seems you have shown this in your posts.

Unbelievable Iam64 , although I do of course believe you!
I really don't 'get' anti-semitism at all.

I guess that's exactly what I mean Chewbacca. Jews take their Jewishness with them wherever they go .... be it London, Manchester etc. so maybe they should not be surprised that anti semitism follows them too. It's the same for many other groups. The Jewish stereotype becomes self-perpetuating because of the way they over react to the hostility they encounter. Of course no one is suggesting we should ever forget the atrocities of WW2, but it's now 70+ years on, the past is the past, and constant harping on might be viewed as annoying or unendearing.

Sorry but this is a fantasy, so somehow we stop all British people from being racist, which country do start on after we have sorted this one out and we all live in leave in harmony.

Good posts Rosyapple yes indeedy, you should ( and do) know more about the situation than anyone on this thread.
Good post Chewbacca ??

Lillie

You're offensive Lillie.

In what way offensive? I stated I'm trying/struggling to understand the predicament from a personal viewpoint.

If we forget the past we will repeat it , how does one move on with a shrug of the shoulders after the suffering the Jews endured

I am still angry over Capel Celyn and there was no one murdered .

You really can't see what, in your post, was offensive Lillie? May I suggest that you go and speak to a Jewish person and say to them, "Why are you constantly harping on about 6 million people being gassed and tortured during WW2? It's 70 years ago, the past is the past, why don't you move on? You're constant harping is, at best annoying and, at worst, not endearing".

And if you can't find a Jewish person who will give you the time of day, how about asking an Indian person who has family that were displaced due to Partition? You could ask them why, 70 years later, they're still "harping on" about it.
Come back and let us know how you get on.

Not forget the past, not even bury it, but learn from it and maybe adapt some of our practices and behaviour?

You're Welsh Annie, I understand your pain over certain events in your lifetime.
My grandfather and great grandfather were Jewish stockbrokers in London. I have felt the need to move on and take a different view of life.

But Lillie, we can move on but not forget , how can the .jews take a different view of the holocaust , they were the victims , millions of innocent people were slaughtered , there is no different view you could put on this

OMG - just come across this thread & I'm finding it difficult to believe what I'm reading in some of the comments: "Jews..this" "Jews...that" Wow - I can't relate to any of it - where does all this anti-semitism come from?

I have to confess that I'm sharing your mystification, dbDB77

That's what we're wondering dbDB , it beggars belief.

Trisher, you are resorting to personal attacks now, rather than giving reasoned arguments. I have answered your points, and if you don't like my answers that's not my problem. I deal in facts and I can't profess to be sorry about concocted allegations. Nor can I blame Israel for matters for which they aren't responsible. I would, btw, blame them for anything for which they were.

Let me state this clearly - I'm sorry for the Palestinians in Gaza, whose leadership has always and continues to let them down. Money intended for them has been diverted by their leaders. Don't think their people don't about it, they do, but any who dare to object are lynched in the streets. In Israel we know that together we could all help each other and improve this part of the world.

Israel, however, can't be blamed for Arafat's and now Hamas' actions. Their people voted Hamas in, and now they're stuck with them as they won't step down and have another election.

I'm afraid I'm unable to see the UN as a body which can't be criticised and with which one is obliged to always agree.