Why are we leaving?

Ha! Thought you were watching Educating Manchester, so I could say the same.
But when I say "drone" as attributed to you, I'm sure you know what I mean.

And when I say genocide to you, I hope you know what it means.
It means killing. Not very pleasant, is it?
It doesn't apply to intermarriage among different European nations. Both my sons are married to non-British wives.
Nobody died. I have five grandchildren, all of whom are mixed nationality. They look just as British as you or me.

I voted REMAIN but I can understand why some voted LEAVE though I do not agree with them. The main reason appears to be immigration which we can control if we want to. A chance to hit back at the Tories, understandable frustration but nothing to do with the EU. There are faults in the EU but as part of it we can have influence and we are not alone in not wanting a more federal Europe.

Outside the EU our trade will suffer dreadfully.

We all know the referendum was based on lies many now exposed, the result was therefore undemocratic. The government should be prepared to admit that they may be wrong and have another vote based on facts and not dogmatism. If the result then is still LEAVE than LEAVE is what we should do. I would rather not a have another referendum but allow a whip free vote of conscience in parliament.

I ll try one last time: could someone explain, ( without using the words “sovereignty, indépendance, democracy, control etc...” ) how the EU has negatively affected their freedom, their happiness, their safety, their rights ....

It's no good ck33. People have been trying ever since June 2016 to get a clear answer on this one but there's never been one forthcoming.

Really, very few people gave a toss about the EU until Cameron used it as a bid to see off UKIP.

Durhanjen! I really have no idea what you are ranting about. My son is married to a Maltese girl and I have Grandchildren of mixed nationality. I have friends in Iraq, who are Muslim. I don't know what you are trying to imply but you are very much "barking up the wrong tree" .

In which case I do not understand what you are on about, talking about the genocide of Europe.
Perhaps you don't either. Or have you forgotten that you said that?

No! I have not forgotten! But if you choose to misunderstand what I wrote, then I can do nothing about it.

Did you or did you not say the genocide of Europe?
If it's what you said, your son is part of it. Are you happy about that?

I can't repeat myself anymore to you. You have totally, deliberately misunderstood what my post was about. You are obviously not very intelligent, in fact you are stupid. So I can't be bothered any more.

Drones are very nasty aircraft that bomb people.

That's a totally inaccurate statement to make, isn't it? "Compared to manned aircraft, UAVs were originally used for missions too "dull, dirty or dangerous"[2] for humans. While they originated mostly in military applications, their use is rapidly expanding to commercial, scientific, recreational, agricultural, and other applications,[3] such as policing, peacekeeping,[4] and surveillance, product deliveries, aerial photography, agriculture, smuggling,[5] and drone racing."

It's also worth remembering that, without drones, US and European peacekeeping forces wouldn't have had the sucess they have against ISIS. So, setting sweeping statements aside, drones are a fairly vital piece of military equipment and, like anything else, only as good, or bad, as the people who use them.

dronewars.net/category/uk-drone-operations/

What's your point durham? Haven't we already covered the point that drones can be used for negative forces? But also for good? Did I not already say that, like anything else, it depends entirely on who is using them? Or is it just that you felt the need to post a link?

The point is that I don't think they are a vital piece of equipment. I think they are dangerous, and kill too many civilians.
I am not the only one who thinks that.
War these days is getting like 1984. We are being used at the moment as trump's airforce one strip, while the government is getting rid of our own ships.
Our airmen fly drones from the US.

So you would prefer young soldiers to go into ISIS territory would you? Take their chances of stepping onto land mines; dodging snipers? Soldiers don't have aerial vision, so they cant see where arsenals of weapons are being stored but drones can, thus reducing loss of life. Certainly, as in any conflict, there has been loss of civilian life but drones have been able to pick up and identify where civilians are being kept as human hostages by ISIS and that's enabled direct strikes to be made that has saved civilian lives.

But you won't let this rest durham because you don't like being wrong and you don't like it when it's been shown that, to prove a point, you've exaggerated. But in saying that "drones are very nasty aircraft that bomb people", you do a disservice to the military personnel who depend on them to keep you, me and the rest of us safe.

There wouldn't be an Isis if Blair and Bush hadn't done what they did.
I know a bit about the forces. I also know a bit about the first Iraq war, where one of my relatives was one of Hussein's human shields.
My brother, brother in law and sister were all in the forces.
I don't think I am doing a disservice to them. I think Bush and Blair and Thatcher did that.
How have I been shown to exaggerate? Are you saying drones aren't nasty planes that kill innocent people?
Tell that to the Syria Campaign and those being killed by our drones in Yemen.

In 2015 UNHCR said that there were more civilians killed in Yemen by drones than by Al Qaeda.

Surprisingly durham, you're not the only person on GN who has friends, family, loved ones and not so loved ones who are involved in the forces, it's not just you. And yes, I'm saying that drones are not "nasty planes used to kill people" because that's a childish and immature way for an adult to discuss a subject such as this. The only thing you and I agree on here is the culpability of Bush, Blair and Thatcher.

Keep posting your links and snippets that deplore the use of drones if you wish. But I know, that without drones, the mortality rate in Afghanistan, Iraq; Iran and Pakistan would be very much higher for both military personnel and civilians than it is with them. And if I have the choice of sending a soldier into a conflict zone, having had the benefits of aerial intelligence beforehand, I'd take it. For everyone's sake.

I voted to leave and I have seen no reason to change my mind. All the money that we pay into the EU would be better spent here on our people.
I voted out because I think we should control our own borders. I voted no to the common market too.

Well, here I was, looking for an answer....it seems we are leaving because of drones!

Well, at least you're consistent maddy

Did you vote so that all the financial institutions could move to mainland Europe before we close our borders, maddy?

www.theweek.co.uk/brexit/88835/city-giants-begin-move-to-frankfurt-as-brexit-doubts-grow

Those of you still searching bitterly for reasons for leaving the EU know damn well why millions of people voted OUT.
It has been said over and over again, but you simply can’t accept it.Tough!
Chewbacca hardly worth going on explaining reasonably to those who are unreasonable, is it? ?but well done you, anyway.

Who is bitter? Not me.
I am enjoying the sight of Brexiteers being unable to brexit.

So the fallout from the threat of Brexit is beginning to hot up.

We have various countries now objecting to our very early negotiations with the EU

The WTO is not a level playing field, but we are intent on leaving one which ensure a level playing field for business with its much despised rules.

We are becoming a low productivity, low wage and no doubt low regululation economy

There is even less money then we hoped to support us during Brexit

We have become a divided and hostile society

But apparently it is all worth it -personally I think we are being lead by the insane