Labour Party and anti semitism

Wrong Ilovecheese but it is used to defend Corbyn.

This thread is to condemn the anti semitism in the Labour Party and to support Margaret Hodge, a woman I admire and a loyal member of the Labour .party.

Perhaps you can explain why Corbyn attended a remembrance service for an IRA member but refused an invite to visit the Israel Holocaust Museum .

This is the man his devoted followers here claim he mixed with the IRA because he is a peacemaker who believes in speaking to all sides.

A 'loyal member of the Labour Party' who calls its leader anti-semitic Annie? Well you have to think either her principles are not important enough to her to cause her to resign (because surely if you truly believed a party was led by an anti-semite you would want to distance yourself from it) or that she was using the slur to try and undermine a leader she did not see eye to eye with. And as she hasn't resigned the latter would seem to be true.

Margaret has said she will remain in the party and fight against racism , she has principles and a love of the party which you wouldn’t understand trisher.

Corbyn refused to pay respect to those who died in the Holocaust, her grandmother was one as well as other family members. Do you too believe like those oxford students that the Holocaust is a money cow?

annie, I am completely staggered that anybody could even think that of the holocaust, never mind say it!! Have these students even an inkling of how appalling it was? How
anyone in their right mind could talk about such a terrible period in such glib terms is shocking, to the point where I don't want to talk about it! No wonder Margaret Hodge is so upset! Do JC and his cohorts have any idea how cruel their comments are? She's to be disciplined?! Well, I'm speechless!!
Criticising the government of Israel is perfectly fine as it is with every government provided you live in a democracy!!
But to be vile to and about individuals who are connected to these countries in whatever respect is disgraceful as surely any right minded person would be aware! Why the constant debate? Why is that so difficult to understand?

The problem is you cant appear to be PRO Palestinian or you are called out as anti semitic...which is a nonsense.The Israeli government treatment of Palestinians is a disgrace and largely ignored simply because folk dont want to appear to be anti semitic which they are not.That includes me !

Not visiting the Holocaust museum isn't not showing respect Annie perhaps he wasn't invited at a time that was convenient (Now why on earth would they do that?). Many Jews with family who died in the Holocaust have condemned the actions of the Israeli government and recognise how dreadfully the Palestinian people have been treated. If she disagrees with the agreed statement about anti-semitism MH will not only be opposing the party leader but the NEC as well. A case of she is the only person who really knows?

niggly, I did wonder if they would go for Margaret Hodge, she is so liked and respected by fellow labour MP’s, hurting her may be that one step too far. But now they have the knives out for Ian Austin can they ignore Margaret .

It will be up to the new general secretary, ex lover of Len Mccluskey

Weak excuse trisher, very weak

I dont believe the Holocaust is "a money cow" but I do believe the Israeli government use it as an excuse for their incredibly bad behaviour ..which I find odd.If I've suffered I dont want others to suffer in the same way ...do you?
With all the recent hysteria about Russia we should remember they lost over 4 times as many people in the second world war as the Jewish communities ...25 million is a conservative estimate.
Do we see Russia using that loss as an excuse for mistreating their next door neighbours...or for building walls and refusing them access to necessities?Yet the western world still fuels this paranoia about Russia while Israel can walk away time after time from UN resolutions with no punishment .Its bizarre .

“Jeremy Corbyn is leading the Labour Party into a dark place of ugly conspiracies”

Just announced by the leader of The Board of Deputies of British Jews.

But now they have the knives out for Ian Austin can they ignore Margaret. It all sounds too awful!

They seem to have got themselves mired in this controversy whilst Rome is burning on the opposite benches.

No one that I'm aware of is suggesting that criticising the treatment of the Palestinians by the current government in Israel is anti semitic. There is though a very fine line between supporting the Palestinians and calling any Jewish people who either live in Israel, or support its right to exist, calling them nazi's - and being anti semitic.
How anyone can suggest calling out `Margaret Hodge or Ian Austen is beyond me. These are hard working Labour people. If they say they feel there is a problem with anti semitism within their own party, why shouldn't they be listened to, rather than subject to some internal disciplinary proceedings.
The use of the term Zio as abuse is widespread amongst many on the left. I know because I hear it used. The link between influential US Jewish people, business and money is used with no thought to the historical anti semitic accusations that Jews are money lenders, have more money than your average individual etc etc
I find the simplistic arguments from some on the left difficult to take. I'm opposed to any form of racist abuse or behaviour. I do believe Israel has a right to exist. Does that make me some kind of right wing extremist supporter of wealthy Jewish people who just long to oppress the Palestinians. Of course not.
I genuinely do not understand why the LP (my part for the past 50 years) felt the need to re-write the definition of anti semitism. My fear is, the need arose in order to enable many Momentum - similar - supporters to remain in the party without them facing the kind of disciplinary action its proposed is used against two Jewish MP's who lost family in the holocaust. Odd isn't it, that sensitivities only go so far.

Bravo Iam.

The USSR state did not round people up, transport them in appalling conditions then systematically murder them by diabolical methods simply because they were Jews paddyann. I agree Stalin did some terrible things but the annihilation of the Jews was just that, the oldest person down to the smallest baby, only total extinction would do! Of course you can criticise the Israeli government in the exactly the same way as any other government without being anti semitic, but not its people any more than Syria, North Korea China, unpleasant governments, but not unpleasant people, unless of course you're Jewish!!

Do you not understand that many actually find the definition being currently used as unacceptable Iam64? If you read the thread no one has yet answered my question would you deny the right of a Palestinian to compare the treatment of his (or her) people with the treatment of the Jews by the Nazis? because this definition does. Personally I think free speech is important and no regulation or definition should seek to limit it. There have been many genocides and many wholesale slaughters of many races in history and never has there been a restriction on comparing them with others.
And blaming Jeremy Corbyn for this is in fact a complete distraction. This was an NEC decision and should be respected as such.
The problem is that such restrictions tend to back fire and the result is a belief that there are hidden forces at work and from these roots springs anti-semitism. It isn't acceptable but it is understandable and actually dealing with the problem as the LP have is better than sweeping the whole thing under the carpet and pretending everything is wonderful. There is a real problem with the definition, there is a real problem with what is happening in Palestine and problems ignored don't go away they fester and breed.
There was a huge outcry about Trump's proposed wall but the Israeli West Bank Barrier was built with little protest, it was condemned by the UN, but it remains.

And Shami was brought in to investigate the allegations of anti semitism, she said there was just a occasionally a toxic atmosphere, then trotted of to the Lords . Corbyn told the truth when he said she was “an ideal appointment to the Lords” a case of you pat my back I’ll pat yours

Annie why start a thread about anti-semitism in the Labour party when all you really want to do is take pot shots at Corbyn? Perhaps you could move on and discuss things a little more objectively. Or is that asking the impossible?

trisher....if only the LP were dealing with the matter!
That’s the problem with having a weak leader, Corbyn isn’t dealing with any problem, nor is anyone else.
Rather than deal with it, they prefer to redefine things.
As to your question, of course the treatment of the Palestinian people is not the same as how the nazis treated Jews in Germany, unless they are gassing them wholesale in huge concentration camps, torturing them, conducting medical experiments on them and starving them.

trisher, Corbyn is the leader of the party, no pot shots just the truth, you defence of this man is so weak.

I assume any thread on the Tory party will have no mention of their leader ?

Anniebach you strongly dislike JC. The two people concerned have broken parliamentary codes and LP expectations. They are being disciplined not for what they think but by the way they behaved. Swearing at and disparaging people in public especially in the HoC is not a professional way to behave.

The LP has adopted the IHRA statement.

The guidelines to support it were reviewed by the House of Commons Home Affairs Select Committee in 2016 and recommendations made to clarify the guidelines to:

'ensure freedom of speech is maintained in the context of discourse about Israel & Palestine. without allowing antisemitism to permeate the debate'

They recommended the definition should include the following statements

' It is not anti Semetic to criticise the Government of Israel, without additional evidence to suggest anti Semitism' and

' It is not anti-semetic to hold the Israeli Government to the same standards as other liberal democracies, or to take a particular interest in the Israeli Government's policies or actions, without additional evidence to suggest anti-semetic intent'

I rather think this is what the LP is proposing ( it has not yet been agreed!!) to put to to the Exec to discuss.

The person who drafted the original statement himself said it was a document for discussion.

It is my opinion that the focus on anti Semitism , which after recent independent polls, including amongst Jewish community, was not found to have increased (not saying we should not fight to reduce) is part of a centrist/right wing campaign to oust JC.

JC has stated clearly that he is opposed to anti-Semitism and any member found to be using anti-Semetic language or behaving in any way that is anti-Semetic would have membership removed. They are not welcome in the LP. Naz Shah was suspended for posting a cartoon map. The cartoon was also on the website of a major Jewish scholar ( Norman Finkelstein) who saw it within the context it was intended and found it amusing. He is horrified that Naz Shah, a successful Muslim woman, has been scapegoated and says it will not help reduce anti-Semitism but increase it. He sees it as a worrying symptom of the far right stirring up anti-Semitism. It is easy for trolls to manipulate 'fake news' for their own ends and to gain mainstream support.

People in Gaza are actually being held very much as Jews were held in ghettos lemongrove (oops I've just been anti-semitic). Their movement is restricted, they are denied utilities and medical help and many are starving. You don't see any similarities, others do see them, but they are unable to say so. A new definition was needed. And discussing the issues without the throwing about the term anti-semite would have been desirable. Name calling never helps.

Naz Shah has a bit of a history of saying anti -semitic things.
It doesn’t matter what JC ‘says clearly’ as he never follows up with any actions.
It doesn’t need ‘trolls’ or fake news to know that the LP has a big problem with anti-semitism.

PECS, the shadow chancellor swore at and disparaged fellow MP’s on a stage in the O2 which was televised

lemongrove nothing compares to the Holcaust.

However the siege of Gaza is causing many deaths as medical supplies and access to hospitals is limited and controlled by the current Israeli government. They also control food, water supply and electricity. Ripping up olive trees (great source of income for many Palestinians) and razing ancient villages and homes to make way for settlements that the international community has said are illegal is not a just way for the Israeli Government to behave. Just because it is not as bad as the Holocaust does not make it in any way acceptable. The recent law passed in Israel now opens the door to prioritise Jewish Israelis over Arab Israelis making them 2nd class citizens. Do you support that policy?

Seems the board of deputies of British Jews are all right wing activists mmmmmmmm