Labour Party and anti semitism

I have posted that a spokeswoman for UNITE, said Corbyn was naive and the party is combobulated

Would you still vote for this party Annie

varian, that is so difficult . We have an election soon for a new First Minister of Wales, if Carwyn was still First Minister I would campaign for Welsh Labour, a vote for Labour in my constituency is pointless, strong Tory. So no I will not vote in a general election, will find this upsetting but I would be voting for Corbyn , couldn’t do that.

Our A.M in this area is Kirsty Williams, lib, very popular.

Grandad

" I am not sure that the election or re-election of those on the Labour Party NEC necessarily makes Jeremy Corbyn position as leader more secure. I believe that it makes the left wing policies that have been brought forward while Corbyn has been leader more secure."
--

That may certainly have some worth but the reselection of the JC 9 sure as hell confirms that Labour has been taken over by the party within a party Corbyn/ Momentum party despite the protestations by some this is not the case.

Result of NEC election.
Yasmine Dar (Momentum/CLPD/CLGA slate) 88,176– elected

Claudia Webbe (Momentum/CLPD/CLGA slate) 83,797 – elected

Jon Lansman (Momentum/CLPD/CLGA slate) 83,072– elected

Rachel Garnham (Momentum/CLPD/CLGA slate) 81,702 – elected

Huda Elmi (Momentum/CLPD/CLGA slate) 80,371– elected

Darren Williams (Momentum/CLPD/CLGA slate) 79,361 – elected

Ann Henderson (Momentum/CLPD/CLGA slate) 79,176 – elected

Nav Mishra (Momentum/CLPD/CLGA slate) 75,224 – elected

Peter Willsman (CLPD/CLGA slate) 70,321 – elected

Willsman would have no doubt also been endorsed by Momentum had the antisemitism accusation against him had not occurred .

Who would you see as Labour Leader if Corbyn was for whatever reason no longer Leader? Might I throw in 2 names McDonnell or Chris Williams maybe.

Trisher wrote:
"The problem with things like this is that they actually feed the need of the genuine anti-semetics who see Jewish conspiracies in everything."
I agree. Exactly why it upsets me so much.
At the same time we shouldn't ignore it, pretend it's not important.

As we have all witnessed in the past few months upholding policy comes before any single person in the organisation whatever their past record in the parliamentary labour party and throughout the whole movement.

The problem is, Grandad, that the message is not getting through to the electorate and will never get through as long as Corbyn (and those that surround him) are in charge.
They are the problem and as long as they remain in charge of the LP then they will never win a GE.

lemon I didn't say I thought there was a Jewish conspiracy I said that the disregarding of the Select Committee woud be seen as such by real anti-semites. Such people pick up on any discrepencies and use them.
It would be nice if you could actually consider what is written.

So the NEC meet today to decide on including the full IHRA . One member is Peter Williamson who was recorded making an anti semetic rant at a NEC meeting, when the recording was made public he apologise and the Labour Party decided that was surffice.

Jewish schools are opening today after the summer holidays, there are guards at each school.

Attacks on Synagogues and vandalism in Jewish semetries have quadrupled .

The NEC have voted to adopt the IHRA in full.

If anyone thinks that this is the end of the matter theyshould think again. Those supporting the Palestinian cause will be preparing to challenge this. I often receive messages from a far left local group, they are mostly young people. Today I got a message which contained this Anti-Semitism is hostility towards Jews as Jews. We are utterly opposed to anti-Semitism as we are to all forms of racism. The IHRA definition has nothing to do with fighting anti-Semitism: it is all about protecting the racist terror state of Israel from universal condemnation, and criminalising support for the Palestinian people’s struggle for self-determination. We are opposed to it.
Sadly I think this will be the opinion of many young people.

Labour NEC has accepted the IHRA definition along with the eleven examples.
But they will add their own statement to protect freedom of speech.

Labour HAS now agreed all the IHRA examples 'alongside a statement which ensures this will not in any way undermine freedom of expression on Israel or the rights of Palestinians' - full text to follow from Laura Kuenssberg BBC.

Anniebach - to reply to your post of 24th Aug-
NO I am not, nor have had any connections with Jewish Voice for Labour. I am purely a LP member, attending my local branch meetings, etc.
Back in the 60's I was active in Anti-fascist doings in my local area of Hackney.
Okay, I am not an active Jew - actually being a member of the British Humanist Association - but have never thought of hiding the fact that I was born a Jew.
Obviously, the fact that I have never experienced anything like anti-semitism is not to say it does not exist in the LP> However, I do know a large number of people of Jewish descent in the LP - now living all over the UK and not one of them has ever experienced anti-semitism in the LP either. Do wonder exactly who is experiencing this??

Anyone has always been able to criticise Israel and it's policies, until Corbyn came along, and his activists, and Momentum and the £3 members , it was never an issue.

Sadly, calling Israel a racist terror state and being so onesided along with the Palestinian people is part and parcel of the present problem.

this re defining is to protect Corbyn for things he has said in the past, and the many things his followers are saying in the present.

Momentum hold training days around the country , no doubt history will be rewritten. It was at a training day that the former vice chair of Momentum and a founding member of Jewish Voice for Labour, said she didn’t know what the definition of anti semetism was. Her father was a Jew and a member of the communist party.n

While I can see people have issues with the Israeli government, that's understandable and acceptable, but to hate an individual person because they either come from Israel or are associated by religion is absolutely horrible.

Agreed Niggly and spot on.

It's incredible in this day an age that hatred 'by association' is alive and kicking in the Labour party. The fact that members cannot seem to bring themselves, unless forced to do so, to incorporate the wording of internationally acceptable definitions of anti semitism is breathtakingly awful. I agree that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is complex and there have been atrocities on both sides, but the situation within the party should have been cleared up long ago so that claims of anti semitism in the ranks never raised its ugly head.

What is really worrying is the silence from the back and front benches. There must be many fair-minded Labour MPs who find the situation intolerable but dare not speak up.

Day6 that makes the whole issue too simple. The young people who sent me that message are passionate and knowledgable about human rights. One of the reasons I stay in touch with them is because they have sometimes told me stories about civil rghts activism that isn't in the history books. They reject the wording of the IHRA definition on very good grounds and what should happen is a dialogue with them to find a compromise. They do not hate anyone. They find the actions of Israel unacceptable that is totally different to hating people.

Corbyn wanted the NEC to add ‘ racist comments against Israel was allowed’

This amused me

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewish-creator-and-writer-of-yes-minister-jonathan-lynn-criticises-corbyn-for-english-irony-1.469175

Corbyn wanted the NEC to add ‘ racist comments against Israel was allowed’

The Labour leader had wanted to include a statement that said: “It should not be considered anti-Semitic to describe, Israel, its policies or the circumstances around its foundation as racist because of their discriminatory impact.” (Financial Times)

I think some of the assertions on here are more 'opinion' rather than proven evidenced fact. Even on the links.

The comment by JC re irony was in a particular context referring only to the particular people present. It was not a slur on all Jews or anti Semitic. One can criticise individual people, who are Jewish, for their actions, attitudes or behaviour as you can any one. That is not anti-Semitic. You cannot be critical of them BECAUSE they are Jewish. It is possible for a Jewish person to be e.g. a political extremist, stupid, very clever, ordinary etc, just as it is for anyone. To perceive Jewish people as a homogenous group is in itself rather anti Semitic.

If you still think Jeremy Corbyn is anti-Semitic thenread this and note who has signed it.

Attacks on Jeremy Corbyn and Labour Party
Jewish Voice for Peace Board of Trustees Responds to Attacks on Jeremy Corbyn and Labour Party
In "Press Release"

First ever: 40+ Jewish groups worldwide oppose equating antisemitism with criticism of Israels social justice organizations from around the world, we write this letter with growing alarm regarding the targeting of organizations that support Palestinian rights in general and the nonviolent Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement, in particular. These attacks too often take the form of cynical and false accusations of antisemitism that dangerously conflate anti-Jewish racism with opposition to Israel’s policies and system of occupation and apartheid.

We live in a frightening era, with growing numbers of authoritarian and xenophobic regimes worldwide, foremost among them the Trump administration, allying themselves with Israel’s far right government while making common cause with deeply antisemitic and racist white supremacist groups and parties.

From our own histories we are all too aware of the dangers of increasingly fascistic and openly racist governments and political parties. The rise in antisemitic discourse and attacks worldwide is part of that broader trend.

At times like this, it is more important than ever to distinguish between the hostility to or prejudice against Jews on the one hand and legitimate critiques of Israeli policies and system of injustice on the other.

The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism, which is increasingly being adopted or considered by western governments, is worded in such a way as to be easily adopted or considered by western governments to intentionally equate legitimate criticisms of Israel and advocacy for Palestinian rights with antisemitism, as a means to suppress the former.

This conflation undermines both the Palestinian struggle for freedom, justice and equality and the global struggle against antisemitism. It also serves to shield Israel from being held accountable to universal standards of human rights and international law.

We urge our governments, municipalities, universities and other institutions to reject the IHRA definition and instead take effective measures to defeat white supremacist nationalist hate and violence and to end complicity in Israel’s human rights violations. Israel does not represent us and cannot speak for us when committing crimes against Palestinians and denying their UN-stipulated rights.

The Nobel Peace Prize-nominated, Palestinian civil society-led BDS movement for Palestinian rights has demonstrated an ongoing proven commitment to fighting antisemitism and all forms of racism and bigotry, consistent with its dedication to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Some of the undersigned organizations support BDS in full, others in part, and others have no formal position on BDS. We all affirm the current call for BDS as a set of tools and tactics that should not be defined as antisemitic.

Signed:

Academia4equality (Israel)

Arbeter Ring/Workmen’s Circle, Southern California

Boycott from Within (Israeli citizens for BDS)

Coalition of Women for Peace (Israel)

Collectif Judéo Arabe et Citoyen pour la Palestine (France)

Dayenu: New Zealand Jews Against Occupation (New Zealand)

Een Ander Joods Geluid (A Different Jewish Voice) (The Netherlands)

Een Andere Joodse Stem – Another Jewish Voice (Flanders, Belgium)

European Jews for a Just Peace

Free Speech on Israel (UK)

Gate48 – critical Israelis in the Netherlands

Independent Jewish Voices (Canada)

Independent Jewish Voices (UK)

International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network

Italian Network of Jews Against the Occupation

Jewish Anti-Fascist Action Berlin (Germany)

Jewish Socialists’ Group (UK)

Jewish Voice for Democracy and Justice in Israel/Palestine (Switzerland)

Jewish Voice For Labour (UK)

Jewish Voice for Peace (USA)

Jewish Voice for Peace members in London (UK)

Jews Against Fascism (Australia)

Jews against the Occupation (Australia)

Jews for Justice for Palestinians (UK)

Jews for Palestinian Right of Return (USA)

Jews of Color & Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews in Solidarity w/ Palestine (USA)

Jews Say No! (USA)

JIPF – Judar för Israelisk Palestinsk Fred (Sweden)

Jüdische Stimme für gerechten Frieden im Nahost e.V. (Germany)

Junts, Associació Catalana de Jueus i Palestins (Catalonia, Spain)

Los Otros Judíos (Argentina)

Manchester Jewish Action for Palestine (UK)

Quebrando Muros – Judeus Brasileiros Pela Descolonização da Palestina (Brazil)

Scottish Jews Against Zionism

SEDQ Network- A Global Jewish Network for Justice

South African Jewish Voices for a Just Peace (South Africa)

South African Jews for a Free Palestine (South Africa)

Union des progressistes juifs de Belgique (Saint-Gilles, Belgium)

United Jewish People’s Order (Canada)

Union Juive Française pour la Paix (France)

Boston Workmen’s Circle, Center for Jewish Culture and Social Justice

However because of simplistic politically and media led claims of anti-semitism, a man who cares deeply about the cause of the Palestinian people has been wrongly labelled.

Zionists are strong lobbyists and take the gullible along with them.

OldMeg - absolutely agree with your comment. It's not to do with concern about Labour's anti-semitism. It is just being used to try to manipulate public opinion.

OldMeg thank you for that post. It was not only enlightening but moving. There is no doubt that the growing movement for supporting Palestine through economic measures such as boycotting goods is regarded with fear in some quarters. It was after all a large part of the measures which put an end to apartheid. Labelling those who want to introduce such things as anti-semites is worrying. That there is support for them from Jews and Israeli citizens is encouraging. One can only hope that freedom of speech and action survives.