"You cannot betray the six million people"

MaizieD, the French journalist later tweeted:
I hasten to say that there were not representative of today’s pro-Brexit demonstration. Scroll my other tweets, you’ll see it was mostly about people feeling betrayed and saying democracy was not respected.

maddyone: ...she voted Remain because all her four children told her to vote Remain. She didn’t have a clue as to why she’d voted remain, except that all her ‘guys’ voted remain.

The above statement probably applies to many Leave voters as well. Are we then saying that many voters "didn't have a clue as to why they voted" the way they did? And on that basis we are now willing to implement a decision that will damage us the least.

Greta, given that perhaps many people didn’t understand the issues when they voted, both remain and leave voters, I cannot see how this has changed. My sister still doesn’t understand the issues, she probably never will. My MiL (age 92) probably didn’t understand either, she has voted how her husband told her to vote all her life, I know this because she herself has told me this. I have no idea how she voted in the referendum, or even if she voted at all. There are probably many people like this, but it’s not a reason to rerun the referendum, anymore than it would be to continue to rerun a parliamentary election just because the losing side didn’t like the result. Incidentally I don’t think TM keep returning her deal to the HofC is democratic either. There is no reason to assume that people such as my sister or my MiL would be any more informed in a second referendum. In fact, I know they wouldn’t be, even if they are only two people out of the entire population.

??Well said maddyone

Good argument for not having referenda on complex issues presented as simple yes/no decisions. Like the woman interviewed on the pro- brexit demo saying she'd never heard of the EU before the referendum - she didn't even know we were in it. My mother in law thought it was all about the NHS, she can't understand why they haven't got the promised money.

I seem to recall that we've had someone on this forum who voted Leave because her children asked her to

I asked my DC's opinion as part of my considerations before voting in the referendum.

It is more for their future than mine.
However, I am able to think for myself and my DC respect that.

As LibDem Deputy Leader Jo Swinson said when she adressed 1 million + people in London, "our children deserve better than brexit Britain"

maddyone: but it’s not a reason to rerun the referendum, anymore than it would be to continue to rerun a parliamentary election just because the losing side didn’t like the result.

We can't compare a referendum with such long-lasting consequences as Brexit to a general election. Elections are held every four to five years.

it is unwise, to betray the 17.4 million leave voters that won the referendum.............

Is that a threat?

MaizieD I think you are referring to me........ 5 children, 4 partners and Mr.GG13 were/are all for leaving the EU. As it is their future I changed my vote to leave.

I also said I would not be posting on " Brexit threads" after 29/03/19, but thought it was only respectful to acknowledge your post.

I seem to recall that we've had someone on this forum who voted Leave because her children asked her to
I see nothing wrong in that, actually, Maizie, as we were supposed to be considering the future of our DC and DGC when deciding how to vote in the referendum.

I would not specifically have changed my mind if I was determined to vote one way or the other, but I did take my DC's thoughts into consideration before making a final decision.

As so many remainers have said on these threads - we'll be dead soon.

I voted leave so we could take any fall out and ensure UK is enabled to get itself into a sound position for our childrens sake before the EU implodes and all the other countries start scrambling for trade deals.
Remaining is only postponing the inevitable.

Everyone must agree that, whichever way they voted in the referendum, we now understand far more now about what Brexit involves than we did then. Another vote would be no betrayal. How could it be? A larger mandate for Brexit would silence criticism of ‘dodgy dealings’ in the pro Brexit team, moneyfrom Aaron Banks, lies about the NHS and immigrants onceand for all. What is not to like?

Ah GrannyGravy13 thank you for your little update.

Actually I really appreciate it on a personal level because on another Brexit thread this morning crystaltipps called me out saying I had opined I wouldn’t be posting about Brexit after 29th March and it puzzled me because I didn’t say that and wondered why she had thought it.

Turns out she was confusing me with you! You were the one who said it. Both of us Leavers, so an easy mistake to make!
?

I for one would be more than happy to have one oldfossil just so long as it was for Remain or WTO. I actually think Leave would romp it on that choice as I think Leavers as tired of all the fudging ‘trying to get a (wishy washy) deal’. We voted OUT and that’s what we would like to see delivered.

Indeed Greta, you are right, the referendum is a once in a lifetime event, or is supposed to be, whilst general elections are held every five years, or are supposed to be. My more important point is that whilst some people may be better informed now, it seems to be shown in my family at least, that many people simply would not be better informed.

Apart from that, if we have to have a second referendum, I think I might actually lose the will to live

But that’s just me, obviously.

Incidentally, I’m the only one in my entire family who has actually changed their position since the original referendum.

But it's OK to betray the 16.1 million who voted to Remain?

Is that to me Dinah, or a more general point?

maddyone

No , it was intended for Lutongranny. I'm new to this forum and had, perhaps mistakenly, assumed that if I ticked 'Add comment' against the post I was responding to, it would appear below it.

Oh okay Dinah, no problem. Welcome to Gransnet.

It's not a question of betrayal but a matter of recognizing reality. The simple fact that over 6 million have signed the petition shows a real change in public opinion. Much of the media and the government still clings to the result of June 2016 despite:

1 Brexit as promised is undeliverable, TM's deal or a softer Brexit will not satisfy anyone, REMAINERS or LEAVERS.
2 A hard NO DEAL Brexit will inflict so much harm on the economy more so than than the almost 3 years of dithering.
3 There is overwhelming evidence that the 2016 pole was seriously flawed through mismanagement and proven illegality.
4 Back in 2016 the majority of voters did not fully understand the implications. We now have a better level of understanding.
5 There is no Credible answer to the Northern Ireland question. The Peace Process is too important to risk.
6 We can still trade with the world from within the EU if we make things that people want to buy at a price they can afford.
7 There was a 21 year gap between WW1 and WW2. Since WW2 we have had over 70 years of relative peace.
8 Since 2016 the makeup of the electorate has changed by around 4 million souls. Many youngsters who could not vote in 2016 can now vote and it is their future. They are owed a say.

Oh Cindersdad you know what they say, God loves a tryer. I hear you clearly, but I'm afraid much of it is falling on deaf ears. It makes perfect sense to me as you sum up exactly my position on the issues involved.

It's going to be crunch time today in Parliament, let's hope that common sense prevails. There has to be compromise and it has to come from Westminster.