The Brexit Party

Why do you continue to argue with leavers 3 years on?
Demanding they give you answers?
Not you personally, but remainers in general?
No leaver is ever going to say anything to change your mind about brexit so why do you bother?
Thu 23-May-19 07:59:40

Kandinsky I certainly don't "demand" that people give me answers. I am not sure what the point would be in that. Have you ever heard about people wanting to understand rather than needing to agree or disagree? Think about it. If we understand other people's reasoning we may be able to do better when it comes to explaining or meeting others needs.

I appreciate that not many leavers see any point in accepting that democracy applies to the whole country - they do not see the need to make it possible for losers to consent to the outcome of a referendum nor do they seem to feel the need for that referendum to have democratic legitimacy but they do hold other views that are very strong and I, personally, like to work out what those are. Some of it, I have to admit, comes over as sheer bloody mindedness but there is even something behind that and I am interested to find out what it is. I really don't set out to have my mind changed or confirmed but hope it is flexible enough to include the thinking of others. That includes those who know a lot about politics and economics and those who don't. It all helps me to expand my views.

vot ig voting

Thank you for indulging us with a little more of "The Life Of Gabriella" and the saintliness of your family. I am sure we will never tire of it. [yawn]

GabriellaG54 Thu 23-May-19 10:41:55
GabriellaG54 Thu 23-May-19 10:48:49

You can tell when people have no sensible argument when they read a post and attribute things to the poster which they did not say. You know who you are!

MEDIA LIES AND BREXIT

Ever since it joined the European Union in 1973 Britain has had the most eurosceptic press in the Brussels-based club. Its two top-selling papers, The Sun and the Daily Mail, are rabidly anti-EU, reporting on its affairs with a mixture of hostility, mockery and contempt.

When former European Commission President Jacques Delors had the temerity to propose a single currency in 1990, The Sun screamed “Up Yours Delors” on its front page accompanied by a two-fingered salute to the “French fool”. In 2003 the Daily Mail described a draft EU constitution as a “blueprint for tyranny”. And in 2011 the same paper warned that Germany was turning Europe into a “Fourth Reich”.

The Daily Telegraph, the fourth best-selling paper in the UK, feeds its readers a daily diet of negative news about the European Union, while the sixth biggest – the Daily Express – has led a “crusade” against British membership. Typical headlines include “EU brainwash our children”, “Now EU Wants to Ban our Kettles” and “Get Britain out of the EU”.

Due to strict impartiality guidelines, British TV reporting is fairer. But even the BBC broadcasts more negatively than positively. An April 2016 report by Zurich-based analysts Media Tenor concluded that only 7% of BBC coverage of the EU was positive and 45% negative. It also found that the tone of coverage was more negative than that about Russian and Chinese strongmen Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping. Even Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad received more positive mentions than the EU.

ethicaljournalismnetwork.org/resources/publications/ethics-in-the-news/media-lies-and-brexit

It is hardly surprising that Farage and his appalling Brexit Party gain so much support from our corrupt media.

Well said Gabriella ??

There is too muc mud slinging on the political posts at times.

Kandinsky we are not on Mumsnet! I could quote you all the insults and name calling of remainers on Twitter but it would not be relevant to GN.

GG "More spiteful, personal remarks from those who can't manage to discuss the actual political points then Lemongrove. It's never gone away." I think it was you who actually was prepared to discuss it with me. For that I am grateful but I have no respect for those who push for leaving but refuse to give the reasons why.

Kandinsky of course we won't change our minds unless you give us a reason to! Blindingly obvious I would have thought. Or perhaps it is because some leavers are so set in their minds they assume we all are too. I often thing that what people assume about others says more about the way their minds work that the person they are making assumptions about.

Fire of course we can't accept a vote based on criminality and lies, why would we? Why are you concerned about a confirmatory vote? That really would be democracy.

Maizie I read that NF wouldn't get out of his bus because 3 people were standing outside with 'milkshakes'. I have no idea if it was true or whether they had anything in them.

G54 as you have so frequently told us how superior you are I assume your family are the same so not really representing the man of the people more like the man of PayPal.

varian I think that is because Brits prefer to moan than to celebrate the good.

Sadly, I think that's true, Nonnie.

Successive UK governments have given many people a lot to moan about and this has been ruthlessly exploited by liar Farage and his cheerleaders in the Daily Mail, Sun, Daily Express, Telegraph and the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation. Farage is good at making people angry and misdirecting their anger towards the EU for his own ends.

This has been going on for years and is now reaching a crescendo of anger which is bringing out the worst in many decent people who may not realise that they've been drip fed poison on a daily basis by the media.

I’m sorry , but the person who told me they voted Brexit because there are too many Africans in the country definitely is a thick racist. Pretending no one comes into this category is delusional.

Perhaps a "Leaver" could explain this to me.

While I have some sympathy with the wish for a return to a more obvious "nation-state", which many perceived as having more agency in relation to both GDP, cross-border trade and taxation, what I cannot understand is why people then want to leave the EU as a trading block. It is interesting to note that other countries in the EU, where this thirst to return to a more obvious group of nation-states also exists, do not want to leave the EU trading block and that we, as a country, were very much in favour of the Common Market.

Also, why oh why do "Leavers" trust those who look for complete deregulation and have the sort of economic thinking that led us into the crashes of both the 1930s and the early part of this century. Far from wanting the nation-state they actually want more deregulation. They want more running of our economy (much of which has already been given away in this country) to be by those with excessive wealth. This is both individual and by huge companies, both wielding more power than a government can. When they become "too big to fail" so we have to bail out the already wealthy, never the people just "doing the job".

Why do you trust them?

Hundreds of calls being received by Europeans living here and entitled to vote but being turned away.

I've seen that too White wonder if the BBC will cover it on the news or is it considered a political thing they cannot say today? They can on the late news though.

I read that 99% of our laws have been made in the UK. Don't think that point has been made before.

Important for anyone not voted yet. You might like to give this some consideration

t.co/Kqvb7TbAtf

It is hardly surprising that Farage and his appalling Brexit Party...

This from a Remainer.

His party is appalling. It is a ONE ISSUE party that ants us out of the EU.

Of course, as a remainer, you find it and the party, and probably the millions of good, decent, fair-minded people who vote for it "appalling".

The Remainer hatred and utter intolerance of another point of view (held by the majority of UK folk) is to my mind, much more worrying.

Day6 we don't know what your point of view is but voting for Farage is imo a matter of morality. I could never vote for someone who behaves as he does and has no matter what.

leavers ...have the sort of economic thinking that led us into the crashes of both the 1930s and the early part of this century

Do we?

How do you know? (Because we don't want Brussels to have a financial stranglehold on our billions maybe?)

You'll have to explain that one Whitewave, or tell us where you copied it from.

As for the rest of it - the usual socialist condemnation of 'the rich' -spare us. If you want Corbyn's Marxists running the show you can vote for him when the times comes.

This isn't a debate about left or right though, is it?

It's about democracy floundering, it's about wrong and right. Brexit has split left and right wingers.

Many Labour supporters want us out of the EU. The working class heartlands of Labour support back Brexit and their MPs have fought to remain.

Hopefully their disenchantment will be reflected as they vote today.

Nonnie, my moral compass works very well. If you knew anything of my background you'd know that.

I am also a big believer in fairness, justice and democracy. I am not part of the Farage fan club but I DO support the ONE ISSUE Brexit Party. I am grateful it exists. As I said before, if Postman Pat had started it, he'd have still got millions of angry and hurt people behind him.

I am not voting for the man, never would.

I am voting for the principle as are millions of other Leave voters who have been shoved aside, disregarded, belittled and abused for the last three years.

I am not sure why my "let's get out of the EU" stance makes me and millions of others the target of outrage and hatred.

There is a moral regarding intolerance there too, isn't there?

Day6 The Remainer hatred and utter intolerance of another point of view (held by the majority of UK folk) is to my mind, much more worrying.

I wonder just how prejudiced you can become Day6? I hate no one but I do dislike people lying and "the majority of UK folk" about 70% wasn't it, did not vote for Brexit. I should try and make sure your terminology is right. Even those voting could only get a 4% majority and I am sure that we are all aware of the circumstances under which that was done.

Being intolerant of a fascist seems to be a reasonable thing to do but perhaps you don't agree.

I notice you cannot answer my previous questions. It would have been nice to hear an argued point of view from you for once.

Ah just seen the attempt to alter the question Day6. You might answer the one that was asked not your bowdlerised version. Nothing in your answer now makes any sense - unsurprisingly.

Nonnie
I'm a working class Northern 'lass' with a mouth and a brain.
Nothing superior about me...well, y'know I shop at Primark.
What you see (or hear or read) is what I am. Plain and unvarnished.

I haven't even started Urmstongran

Now get back to your sun sex and sangria...you lucky people.

Because they didn't fill in and return their forms before May 7th, that's why EU citizens were denied being able to vote here. They would have to vote in their 'home' country. Same goes for UK ex pats.

Day6 I don't know what your background has to do with moral compass but I think it is immoral to condone MF.

I am totally appalled. Just come back from voting and the Brexiter who gave me my paper tried to influence my vote! I told him sharply that I didn't want to hear that. Fortunately there was a woman from the council just checking up that all was OK and I asked her if she was the Returning Officer. She wasn't but took my complaint seriously although she didn't go back in. I am still trying to believe that such a thing could happen.

Unbelievable!
I can't believe that story. There were and are no canvassers from any party at my polling station. None.