Why do Conservatives like Johnson?

No, we don't want an empire crystaltipps - but we have a Commonwealth now consisting of countries which want to belong to it and we are enhanced by it.

Getting back to the OP - the British always like eccentrics and Johnson comes across as an eccentric - which is a very good guise.

I forget which American comedian said "If you're rich you're eccentric; if you're poor, you're nuts."

the British always like eccentrics and Johnson comes across as an eccentric - which is a very good guise.

Sorry, Callistomen, but there is a world of difference between an eccentric and a lying, self seeking b*stard. Eccentrics may do or believe odd things, but they're not usually lacking in honesty and moral compass.

Varian; You hit the nail on the head when you say it is Theresa Mays deal.. Precisely. A deal signed by the PM BEFORE parliament could say yes or no. They subsequently said NO three times! Why? Siml;y because they do not want to be tethered indefinitely to the EU, even after leaving. The EU sees that indefinite backstop as the lead around the UK's neck by which they can control the UK. Boris referred to "vassal state". He is right, that undefinite tethering to the EU makes us a vassal....havig to obey the EU diktat and unable to exit from the backstop without the EU agreeing. Why will they not accept the simple requirement that it has a time limit. Talk about the Irish border....we have already told them we will not impose a hard border....if they want to create a hard border it will be their decision that reduces Eire to a basket case economy. The Dutch PM Mr. Rutte is dead scared of a no deal as it will hit Holland very hard indeed...the same for France, Spain, Italy and the rest of them. Holland will have to eat a lot of tomatoes and find other uses for most of the flowers. The French will have to drink twice as much as they now do to dispose of all that wine. The Spanish will be neck-deep in citrus fruit...just a few examples. Yes, some UK businesses will suffer in the short term.....so then use the £39 billion to compensate them for lost business in the time it takes for the EU to see sense.. Get real folks, get some backbone. Let us not forget the BILLIONS EU countries earn from UK tourists every year. How many jobs in their hospitality industries will be lost. None of them want to shoot themselves in the foot. Tell them 31 October is their D day.
One further thought....why have the Greens (ardent remainers) not seen the benefit of having 5000++ trucks per day NOT belching exhaust fumes as they trundle through the English contryside back and forth from the ports? Now there is a thought for the Greens. A real and massive benefit of no deal...they had better support it if they are serious about cleaner air. Funny how the law of unforseen circumstances helps in the fight against climate change. So get behind Boris and demand No Deal. Take that thought further, less cross-channel ferries means less diesel fuel is used meaning more clean air. I can see the Green lot squirming right now. Come to think of it....the LibDems will also have to think about the cleaner air divident flowing from no deal. Ed Davey, eat your heart out. Once the Greens and LibDems have digested the benefits to climate change they should be stampeding to support Boris. Or will they? Of course not, they are no more interested in climate change reduction than the man in the moon..... or they would have picked up on the unintended benefit a long time ago.

Its very scary how many on here live in LALA land .....I have friends who own and run a trucking firm,Brexit will destroy what it has taken them all their working lives to build .Sadly there are many others in the same situation ..add the massive tariffs that WE'll be paying and I cant see any reason why anyone wants out of the EU .Deluded people .Or I'm all right jack types ?

Shaking my head in utter disbelief, maxdecatt.

paddyann, these Leavers do not give a toss about the damage Brexit will do to people's lives.

Maxdecatt most of your very lengthy and difficult to read post - although I persevered - explains the very reasons why we should remain in the EU.

mxdecatt your incoherent hate filled rant is full of more holes than a fishing net. Every point can be countered with more accurate factual interpretations. Swipes at producers who happen to live in EU countries and those who campaign for the environment are totally ridiculous, inaccurate and there is no evidence to support your assertions. We in the U.K. have cupboards full of Italian tinned tomatoes, pasta, olive oil,( as just small examples) - terrible! Let’s all vote to go back to rationing! Great idea! Those poor countries will have to export somewhere else just so we can do without. All those U.K. tourists visiting Paris, Rome and Venice - they are now going to be holidaying in Scunthorpe, and no one else from any where else in the world visits them do they? As for environmental campaigners championing diesel fumes - where do that one come from ? Completely from your own twisted logic that because they support international cooperation they must therefore support the current mode of transportation. I think you’ll find the Green Party supports local production, cutting air miles, and reducing carbon emission in every way possible. I think you’ll find that if we are airlifting salad and chicken from the USA there will be far more emissions than a cross channel ferry.

Well, now the Tories have to think about the coming GE because that will almost certainly be the case once Johnson is let loose.

Comment from twitter
Hugo Rifkind
@hugorifkind

I'm still trying to process the way that, after deciding in 2016 that they had no interest in Boris Johnson being their leader, Conservative MPs then watched him dramatically screw up everything he attempted for the next three years, which somehow changed their minds.

MaizieD Thursday 23.05 you either did not read my post of Thursday 21.06 properly, or you failed to understand it.
Do you not understand guise?
Do I have to explain it?

Whitewave
(although it's not funny)

Crystalips: Your rant completely misses the point I was making. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The law of unforseen consequences.... less trucks, less carbon pumped into the atmosphere.....you fail to see the logic of that because you choose to wear blinkersa. But then you appear to be of the school that never lets facts get in he way of truth. Too much for you to understand? Reading your rant I guess you are probably a starry-eyed Green or an undemocratic Liberal Democrat. (A group with a contradiction in terms name..... who can believe that Liberals can be Democrats.....connecting the two makes no sense. Classic split-personality condition. Its that a membership requirement?)

Crystalips: I love the way you highlight salad. Such a great priority! Buy a packet of lettuce seeds and grow your own...in the garden or on the windowsill of your high-rise building. Far more nutritious (and cheaper) than the hothouse-force-grown type you now munch on. btw you can do that with most vegetables. Someone here said we will go back to rationing. That will be irritating...but then again we come across those "ubforseen consequences". Far less obese people... so far less illness... so far less need for expensive NHS treatment. Net resulot. Billions saved. At the moment a lot of people "eat to die". Surely it is time they started to "eat to live". Make my day, I look forward to your reply rant!

I don't think the Conservative members do, necessarily, "like" Johnson. What pollsters have discovered is that someone can break every moral code we have and we will still vote for them - if we think they will give us the main thing what we want. You can see this with Trump. He is voted for by people who declared moral compass, or just simply who they are, means they should abhor his behaviour. They are declared Christians, or they are black or they are women; it doesn't matter.

I wonder if the question we should be asking is what exactly is it the people who "want Brexit" expect, say ten years after it? I haven't seen anyone say what changes they really expect. Not ephemeral stuff but how our everyday life will change, what our culture will be, what jobs we will be doing, how we expect the cost of living to have changed. I wonder if a Leave Voter can describe that for us.

'The definition of a guise is an outward appearance presented to the world that may not be true or accurate'.

Is this the definition you were using, Callistemon?

I don't think Johnson even presents in the guise of an eccentric.

Yes, Maizie

Although I do think he does rather present as one with his eccentric hair, his rather bumbling appearance and Latin quotations.

The challange is Maizie and Callistemon, if what has been said by the psephologists is true then Callistemon will always find an "out" to Johnson's character such as eccentricity because she believes he can give her what she wants and those who don't want it will hold up his character and say "why can't you see what he is and what he is doing".

When you think of it, history is littered with those who have promised the earth and those prepared to believe in them because they wanted it to be true. The difficulty is in trying to see above what you think they will give you and see the reality of the person and of what they can or will do. I don't think those who want Brexit are prepared or able to do that. I wonder how many of us are able to see the faults of someone offering to take us in the direction we believe will give us what we want?

My problem is that Brexit is just a word, a slogan, and I still haven't been able to work out what the changes are that those who still want to "leave" expect.

Oh dear, maxxdecatt, where to start.

First of all, trade with EU countries will not come to a sudden complete halt if we leave the EU. It may diminish because their products will be more expensive, but it will still happen because we need what they sell us.

Secondly, your environmental 'advantages' won't happen because even if we don't import from the EU we will import from somewhere and all those lorries will still be trundling around the country distributing imports. In fact, if we import from further away than Europe there will be even more of an environmental cost because imports will have to travel further, either by sea or air, both of which forms of transport use pollutionary fossil fuels.

Thirdly, all the Leavers on here assure us that they will still be visiting Europe, so the EU tourist industry doesn't really look to be in danger of failing.

As for your starry eyed vision of people growing lettuce on their window sills....*Really*?

Don't forget that the UK is not self sufficient in food and hasn't been for many, many years. We struggled to feed a much smaller population in WW2. I'm afraid the prospect of food rationing does not appeal to many of us and there is really no reason why we should have to endure it just to satisfy Leavers' fantasies... You might think it's a wonderful idea but I doubt if many would share your enthusiasm.

I don't think the UK population would see the health benefits of semi starvation. A consequence of shortages that you might not have foreseen could well be serious civil unrest...

Yes, it is a pity that posts are often aggressive in tone. We all love our country and love it more than we love any political party. We take pride our much loved country remains a leader in the terrible struggle for existence against climate change and man made pollution.

Vivian123 - he did NOT do ok running London. He only says he did Ok.

maxdecatt is what you want from "leaving" to grow your own salad and force everyone else to? Is what you want to go back to rationing and force everyone else to?

What lifestyle do you want for yourself and everyone else that "leaving" will bring about? As far as I can see leavers are saying that we can leave and nothing will change. Firstly is that true for you and secondly, why leave if nothing is improved by leaving?

How absolutely hilarious it would be if the revolting Boris stopped Brexit when he realised it was going to scupper him. Other people are right - he could well do it.

Callistemon voted to Remain in the referendum GGM3 so you are completely wrong.
He does indeed appear eccentric, and how much is an act and how much ingrained in his character is anybody’s guess.

MaxieD, Recognise sarcasm when it is spoonfed to you. You cited lettuce as a vital requirement...I went along with your concern and suggested how you can be self-sufficient. btw. Next time you are in a supermarket check the labels on the fruit and veg. It might surprise you to find that you are buying veg and fruit from Kenya, Egypt, Brazil, South Africa, Namibia, India, Pakistan and many other non-EU countries. As to the price of stuff from the EU increasing ....well that is where pricing by supply and demand comes into play. Any buyer confronted with a price increase will first negotiate and if that fails will look at other points of supply. For example: grapes from Brazil, Egypt, India and South Africa are retailed at the same price as those we get from say France. Those other non-EU countries will be delighted to replace EU suppliers....greater volumes supplied by them will mean lower prices will be paid by UK shoppers. Dare I mention the law of unforseen consequences again? Pure economics as taught in any half-way decent school, but probably not in your time?. btw. If you counter by saying those countries could not produce enough you must think again. They have better climates and longer growing seasons. The only thing holding them back at the moment are the restrictions and tariffs placed on them by the EU. Member states of the EU are not allowed to place all their business outside the EU. Any imports from non-EU sources are restricted and subject to EU tariffs....a deliberate move to keep those countries from developing properly and, at the same time, inflating the price EU citizens pay. More production in those other countries will mean more jobs for the local;s there. Yet again the law of unforseen consequences comes into play. This time it will create wealth in those countries, jobs and infrastucture to the benefit of them..... and overseas aid will, eventually, no longer be required. I know that there is an attitude that says: "Sod them, so long as I get my lettuce I am happy, those not in EU states can starve, but I will at least have my lettuce."
Everything is subject to Supply and Demand.... interfering with and trying to corner the marketplace (as the EU does with those tariffs on non-EU states) immediately brings the law of Unintended Consequences into pl;ay. Back to school for you? I am not the brightest in class, but come, join me at my desk and listen to our teacher.
He encourages argument and I and my mates give him a hard time. I do not rant, I merely place the economic argument on the table. We are taught to do that, and to question politicians, elected and armchair, that wear blinkers. (I apologfise to all if my typing sometimes gets wonky!)