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Fox Hunting

(131 Posts)
Dinahmo Thu 04-Jul-19 12:07:13

Jeremy Hunt has announced today that he will hold a free vote on repealing foxhunting. Does anybody approve of this?

jura2 Fri 05-Jul-19 20:16:36

Excellent post lemon - and of course, chicken in a coop are in a totally un-natural situation. Once the fox is in, they will go crazy, running around - and the fox's instinct will just take over. When one took our 5, she had young to feed and buried those she didn't take away. We decided that dead for dead, we would leave the chickens buried with feet sticking up under the big yew hedge- the vixen came back the next 2 nights and they were all gone.

lemongrove Fri 05-Jul-19 20:20:25

Very magnanimous of you jura most people would have disposed of the dead hens.

Tweedle24 Fri 05-Jul-19 20:51:03

I had chickens killed by a fox and I was really angry - not at the fox but, at myself for not having secured them properly.
I see absolutely no justification whatsoever in ill-treating animals for sport.

I am sorry about the lost livelihoods but, as hunting has been illegal for so long, those jobs should have been long gone. I suppose the people who were employed in cock-fighting and bear-baiting lost their jobs too when those sports were made illegal - not to mention those whose jobs were affected after the emancipation of slaves......

Whitewavemark2 Fri 05-Jul-19 20:58:27

jura you had the satisfaction of knowing you helped feed young cubs?

Eloethan Fri 05-Jul-19 22:00:35

There is a specific mention on here of the cruel method of slaughter involved in halal meat. The method required for kosher meat is, I believe, very similar.

I have read that Jewish people feel criticisms of kosher slaughter practices are anti-semitic, and, similarly, Muslim people feel criticisms of halal slaughter practices are islamophobic. In my view, it is not racist to question practices that demean or hurt other human beings or animals.

I don't know enough about these methods to come to a conclusion. Many vets apparently feel that it is much more humane to stun an animal before slaughter. However, my understanding is that Islamic (and possibly Judaic) rules encompass an animal's welfare throughout its life. It seems to me that being concerned about how an animal is slaughtered is justified. But some would argue that animals reared for food are often mistreated every day of their miserable lives and the manner of their deaths is just a continuance of the cruelty experienced throughout their lives.

Anja Fri 05-Jul-19 22:14:10

We have chickens and foxes come into our garden. They’ve never got one yet as their (very large run) is fox-proofed. Next door did lose her guinea pigs to them though.

The hounds themselves are discarded (usually shot) when they get older and lose their edge.

Anja Fri 05-Jul-19 22:15:19

Ignore poor use of parentheses please.

Anniebach Fri 05-Jul-19 22:23:47

I do know halal slaughter is not as other slaughter houses ,
with halal slaughter the animals are stunned and other animals are not to be present , in our slaughter houses they are all together and you can smell the fear.

MissAdventure Fri 05-Jul-19 22:30:18

I'm sure the rspca condemn religious slaughter without stunning the animal first.
That is both halal and kosher (?)

Anniebach Fri 05-Jul-19 22:38:34

halal slaughter the animal is stunned , there was a case where a manager/owner didn’t stun the animals and he was fined

MissAdventure Fri 05-Jul-19 22:41:22

I'm not sure on that, Annie.
I'm off to have a look; I really thought halal slaughter was done without stunning first.

Horrible discussion really, isn't it? Makes me feel quite ashamed of my meat eating.

MissAdventure Fri 05-Jul-19 22:44:10

www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slaughter/religiousslaughter

Anniebach Fri 05-Jul-19 22:55:04

All slaughter houses are cruel places, the staff kill animals all
day every day , there is no sentiment

moggie57 Fri 05-Jul-19 23:01:22

no no no. fox hunting is not a sport. its evil . poor defenceless foxies. lets have a man hunt instead .f!!!oxes come into towns because us humans have taken away their habitat.i love the two foxies around my area and feed them left over cat food.

moggie57 Fri 05-Jul-19 23:02:57

well dont eat meat then. i can not bring myself to eat an animal just for food and pleasure. havent eaten meat for over 40 years now.

MissAdventure Fri 05-Jul-19 23:09:07

Well, apparently the dairy side of farming is one of the most cruel, so unless someone is absolutely vegan they're still contributing to animal cruelty.
I saw a vegan sofa on eBay earlier.

Eloethan Fri 05-Jul-19 23:22:22

This was in the New York Times in January:

"With the start of the new year, Belgium became the latest European country to ban traditional Jewish and Muslim animal slaughtering practices. The move was applauded by animal rights activists but condemned by religious leaders who see the ban as a threat to their communities.

"At issue is whether to allow religious exemptions to European Union rules that state animals must be knocked out before they are slaughtered, which supporters say is more humane. The United States has similar regulations, but allows for religious exemptions.

"Both faiths require that the animal be treated well in life and be healthy and unharmed before slaughter, which all Jewish religious authorities and some Muslim ones interpret as a prohibition of “stunning” before slaughter.

"Religious leaders say minimizing an animal’s pain has always been central to their traditions, and a ritual slaughter — carried out with a sharp blade to the neck — should be quick and almost painless.

"When they are stunned, animals are rendered unconscious through blunt force, electric shocks, gassing or a steel bolt that penetrates an animal’s skull.....

"But kosher-certifying authorities say that no form of stunning before slaughter is permissible, said Rabbi Menachem Genack, who oversees certification for the Orthodox Union, the world’s largest kosher certifier. Some halal-certifying bodies agree, but others do allow nonpenetrative stunning before slaughter."

So, in fact, animals slaughtered under halal rules can be stunned (though not by means of a bolt) but kosher rules prohibit any form of stunning.

Let's face it, any method of slaughter is pretty horrible so perhaps more emphasis should be placed on how an animal lives rather than on how it dies. Providing more natural living conditions throughout life would be much more expensive than intensive factory farming methods so I wonder how many meat eaters would be as prepared to campaign for these sorts of changes, which will undoubtedly hit their pockets.

MissAdventure Fri 05-Jul-19 23:27:32

The rspca link says that animals will feel considerable pain if they aren't stunned.
Around 40 odd seconds for a cow..

I don't think its unreasonable for an animal to live a happy life and have a humane death in this day and age.

I always go for veggie food if I think there is a chance of halal food on the menu.
Not that it makes much difference, overall, but I'm cross that its quietly included in a lot of places.

I would at least like the option of declining it.

jura2 Mon 08-Jul-19 12:09:16

In Switzerland, halal slaughter involves electrical stunning- that means the animal is alive, but feels no pain, at the time of ritual slaughter. The perfect solution- which should beco me more widespread.

Johno Mon 08-Jul-19 12:17:07

I think Jeremy is lovely and all the people are lovely. I also love Foxes and all animals. I think hunting is lovely. Horses are lovely. Hedgerows are lovely. I truly hope all this can be resolved so that we can all be lovely together.
I do hope I have not offended anyone. Please let me know. Lets all be cuddly and nice and stop people who dare to oppose ones view. Phew!!! Thats better. Ps: I would like proof this is a site for people aged over 50??? No offence.

jura2 Mon 08-Jul-19 12:26:53

oh *

watermeadow Mon 08-Jul-19 12:30:53

Our government is entirely London-centric and imagines that all country people hunt, shoot and fish.
It’s a very small number who enjoy killing wild animals for fun. Naturally, they’re all Tories.

Anniebach Mon 08-Jul-19 13:29:14

They are not all Tories

Eloethan Mon 08-Jul-19 16:26:27

BBC News 14 July 2015 reported "Most Tory MPs would be expected to back repealing the [fox hunting] ban, but not all." I believe now many Conservative MPs would be nervous about supporting the repeal of the ban on fox hunting, since they may alienate a large section of the British public (Conservative supporters included) who are opposed to fox hunting.

As far as I can see, Kate Hoey is the only Labour MP who supports fox hunting - and she is standing down at the next election.

I think I am right in saying Plaid Cymru, the SNP, the Lib Dems and the Greens are overwhelmingly against the repeal of the fox hunting ban.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 08-Jul-19 16:34:19

The way I try to mitigate my conscience is to buy from a farmer who farms organically and gives his animals the best life possible. They are slaughtered humanely after travelling a very short distance. I am aware that everything I have written is a total contradiction in terms to those who are vegetarian because of the animal welfare issue.

But I do the best I can whilst continuing to eat meat. I only eat meat roughly every 3 days and sometimes less than that, and am gradually working towards even less.