Well that’s it. We’re not leaving the EU. The people in charge won’t allow it.

If there was any real concern for workers, there would be a realisation that having an unlimited supply of workers means that there is a downward pressure on wages, which is why British workers have seen their wages remain low over a number of years. The EU has two functions, one is to support big business wherever possible, which is really what free movement is all about, it’s a never ending supply of cheap labour, and two, it is a political project designed to concentrate power over a huge swathe of land in the hands of an unelected elite, who reward themselves handsomely. They also reward handsomely the vast quantities of bureaucrats needed to administrate this vast project in order to ensure their support. The EU is not about supporting the little man or woman. Unfortunately over the last 40+ years Britain has become so entangled in the millions of laws, treaties and directives that it has become almost impossible to extricate ourselves from it. The remainers are cheering that that this is so whilst leavers are despairing.

I could point out that the farming community were very worried about the loss of the EU subsidy and that Michael Gove, when Environment Secretary said that the UK would make sure they didn't lose out. So no doubt those landowners would still get their money.

Anyway, we've been through all this farm subsidy business before. We have absolutely no proof at all the these recipients are just trousering the money instead of ploughing it back into their farming enterprises.

Arch Brexiter James Dyson isn't averse to pocketing a substantial sum for his extensive land holdings...

And I believe the Johnson and Cummings family farms also do very nicely out of farm subsidies. I suspect that they will do everything in their power to ensure this form of payment continues after Brexit (increased, if they can get away with it)

I’m sure Michael Heseltine is indeed worried about losing his £90,000, so would I be if I were in receipt of £90,000 a year.

Do Cummings and Johnson have family farms then?

I suspect MH will find some other way to make up that shortfall - he won't lose out.

No SirChenin, on that we can agree. The rich get richer.........

According to the Independent Cummings DOES have a family farm and it will lose about £200,000 a year. I wonder why he wants to leave the EU. I wouldn’t if it were giving me that kind of an income.

The Cummings family does www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/10/dominic-cummings-owns-farm-got-eu-subsidy

I was sure I'd read somewhere that the Johnson family did too - my mistake

Listen, your hopeless politicians have boxed themselves and the EU into a hopeless position.

How could saying you would leave the EU come hell or high water, deal or no deal influence the EU? If they gave in and let Britain have another deal no-one in or out of the EU would ever trust them again.

Everyone, whether they voted for or against Brexit, is understandably annoyed at the way things have gone. The EU is focussing on trying to deal with having customs duties on goods going in and out of the UK once Brexit actually happens.

Most people in the EU would rather you stayed, but if you don't want to, then please, do get out soon, so we can all get on with things.

Maddy He might want to leave the EU but that doesn't mean he intends to do away with the subsidy - it will just be paid to farmers/landowners/landowning companies posing as farms in some other way, making the rich richer as you say.

No SirChenin, on that we can agree. The rich get richer.........

And, maddyone, the rich leading the call for no deal Brexit intend to get richer on the ensuing chaos.

I don't know where you get the extraordinary idea from that they are in any way interested in the situation of 'ordinary people'.

Maizie, I am absolutely sure that neither the EU nor British parliamentarians are remotely concerned with ordinary people. I thought I made my opinion clear in my earlier post, but maybe I didn’t.

I totally agree with SirChenin though, the rich, whoever they are, and however they made their money, will get richer. I don’t have an issue with business being successful, I have an issue with it being successful on the backs of low paid workers, of which there is an unlimited number with free movement. I also have an issue with farmers taking huge sums of EU money and then campaigning to stay in the EU without first declaring their interest.

I agree with your points maddy but unfortunately I don't think that coming out of the EU will change how workers are paid, nor do I think that subsidies to rich landowners will disappear - certainly not while an extremely right wing Govt is in place to look after its own.

Kandinsky : 'This isn’t about stoping a no deal brexit, it’s about stopping brexit altogether - stop being so naive. '

we were promised a Deal, a great Deal an easy Deal - it is now perfectly clear that such a Deal cannot, and never could, exist. Because it would put the UK in a 'superior' position to other EU countries, all the rights and advantages, with none of the costs, responsibilities and joined regulations.

So, the choice is NOW clear - we either go for No Deal, which was never on the cards, and for which the Johnson, ERG, Cummings, Trump and all behind it, have NO mandate for whatsoever.

Or we realise how much damage this will do - and we allow people to vote on the current reality, on facts.

I thought I made my opinion clear in my earlier post, but maybe I didn’t.

You made your opinion clear, maddy but not one shred of evidence as to how you formed it; just unsubstantiated statements.

I can’t understand why anybody wants to give away our country and pay billions a year for the privilege and have no say in any decisions made!

I thank the Lord I’m not young!

What does age have to do with this?

How I formed my opinion is none of your business Maizie, because I have stated my opinion which I am entitled to do. Sorry you don’t like it, but there it is, my opinion. I am certainly not going to quote some left or right leaning journalist’s column or some dodgy Twitter account as some sort of evidence as many do on here. I am perfectly capable of watching news items, reading news, and watching discussion programmes in order to inform my opinion. I also read and take note of the various opinions on Gransnet.
Just for the record, do you seriously think that an endless supply of cheap labour doesn’t force down wages? Seriously?

do you seriously think that an endless supply of cheap labour doesn’t force down wages?

Of course it does - but do you honestly think that coming out of the EU will alter that?

Ok folks......The Government can hold out on Royal assent until after prorogation next week, at which point all bills without Royal assent are scrapped.

It hasn’t been done before, but it is possible.

Fingers crossed then ?

Not sure that is correct gg13. I think the speaker has already ruled on that.

The bill needs Royal assent, Bercow surely is in no position to go over the Queens head, however important he thinks he is!!!!