Will the fat lady sing?

Nonnie. I would never call anyone “stupid”, and I can thoroughly understand why leave voters have given up posting on these threads. I question why I bother?

Come on brexiters where us your dig for Britain spirit.

Surely some of you can spare time to pick fruit and veg ?

WWMK2, Sorry busy with my own veggie patch, let’s get some prisoners to do it.

Come on brexiters where us (sic) your dig for Britain spirit.

Honestly WWmk2 I don’t think you’re happy unless you are giving us Brexiteers a dig❗️
?

I agree GG13 it’s hard going on here sometimes isn’t it?

And no Nonnie I do not think this forum represents ‘the will of the people’ it’s just that on here, there are more Remainers who want to post.

I wonder why that is? Hmm.

The Queen must feel very used. I would refuse to turn up, next time

As a born again brexiteer I'm prepared to dig Boris's ditch for him.....I'm quite enjoying being a BAB. News items that, up until now had me crying into my cup of tea now make me feel joyous and uplifted.

I must be dim Labaik
I don’t follow you?

Do you mean you are pretending to be a Brexiteer?

You are happy to dig that ditch for Boris - so you are still a Remainer then?

Yet you are joyous when you used to be sad. ... I’m definitely confused!!

No; I'm spending a while living in a little bubble wherein things that would normally worry me doesn't as I'm seeing it from a brexiteers viewpoint. It's quite liberating. Eg; instead of being worried about yellowhammer being triggered I'm feeling happy that the people that want Brexit are doing everything they can to mitigate the damage they have caused by doing so. And I'm offering to help Johnson by digging a ditch for him [it was his idea]. I hadn't realised how great it was not having to give a flying flamingo about how Brexit might affect the poorer members of society or that some people might lose their jobs etc.

Yesterday

The government was told off for trying to break the rules set out in Erskine May covering a parliamentary procedure

“A motion or an amendment which is the same, in substance, as a question which has been decided during a session may not be brought forward again during the same session” 1604

This of course annoyed the government.

The first reading of the Withdrawal Act Bill was brought forward late in the day.

The Bill was made available very late in the day and the fact that such a complicated and significant bill will only be given a couple of days to debate.

Annoyed Parliament.

No one came out of yesterday very happy.

Today

All the focus will be on the Withdrawal Act Bill, and the second reading.

This lays out the legal basis for the UKs withdrawal under the Lisbon treaty.

Today is interesting because we will get a good idea of the level of support for the government and assuming it passes, although I think it will.

This is where MPs can start tabling amendments.

So those expected are.

Seeking a Customs Union for the whole of the U.K.

Approval of the deal conditional on a confirmatory referendum.

If any of these past and in my view it is a big if, it will require a departure extension, but also effectively wreck the bill.

Johnson would in these circumstances almost certainly go for an election,

If the amendments fail, then parliament will have a real job to get it through all the stages for the 31st

None of this is as important to Johnson as you might think, as for him all the blocking, defeating etc, feeds into his

“People V Parliament” narrative, which is what he is using to try to win his premiership. He is given huge support from sympathetic newspaper with headlines of attack from No 10;sources, who is of course Cummings.

Premiership is far more important to Johnson than Brexit or any other thing.

I believe that the whole of Britain remaining within the customs union has to be an imperative part of the withdrawal agreement. That would ensure seamless traffic across both the EU and British borders once the United Kingdom has left the European Union.

In maintaining that customs agreement Britain would have to remain in close regulatory alignment in many other areas, therefore, protecting many standards in the UK which the Tories wish to see reduced.

Consequently, a customs union is a must, but it will be a hard fight in the House of Commons in the next few days to gain that I feel.

Oh yes!

The Queen’s Speech?

Given the fuss and insistence that 5 weeks prorogation, the subsequent expense to the tax payer of a court case, you would think it would be given more (any/some) prominence wouldn’t you?

Don’t be silly!

That is yesterday’s news.

Apologise to HRH (or not) for dragging you out to try to further Johnson’s ambition.

I hope Johnson pulls the bill and goes all out for a GE.
This would be the cleanest thing to do now to show what the country wants.If returned with a majority then MP’s will have no choice but to honour the vote to leave with no more ifs or buts.

lemongroveI completely agree with you, but JC and the other opposition parties have to call for a vote of no confidence and win, due to the fixed term parliament act.........and as we know they are frightened of losing their "seats"!

So if the government timetable gets voted down today, it is thought that Johnson will pull the bill even though it is thought that it would pass its second reading.

Johnson May then go for a GE.

If a vote of no confidence were to be passed an election is not inevitable. The convention is for the head of state,the Queen, to ask someone else to attempt to form a government. The Queen will be acting under advice, however the choice is her's and if it happens she does not have to make the offer to the leader of the opposition.

It is often forgotten that the Queen's father asked Churchill instead of Halifax to form a government in the early stages of WW2. Based upon that precedent it could be that she could ask say Ken Clark, Keir Starmer, Harriet Harman or someonelse she believes maybe able to form a government.

It will be interesting to see what happens

Urmstongran Mon 21-Oct-19 17:49:58 please let me explain it simply to you: If the majority of people on here think Brexit is a bad idea there is a very strong chance that most of the UK feels the same. I would suggest that as we are mainly older we probably are not a complete reflection as rumour has it the young feel more strongly about staying in the EU than baby boomers. Do you have an alternative explanation?

Still not had a leaver give me 3 good reasons why they or their family will be better off it we leave the EU. I wonder why that is?

Nonnie The thing is those who voted leave are sick of giving their reasons time after time, it’s just so boring!!

No one has to justify how they vote.

Time after time? Really?? I must have missed all those times. I honestly don't see the problem with giving a logical, rational reason and being prepared to support it.

GG & Grow I can only speak for myself, I keep asking the questions on here and on Twitter and still have not had any sensible answers. I have had some rude answers but most simply ignore the question. Yes, some say they are sick of saying it but they haven't said it to me. Some have suggested I look it up and I have tried but I can't find any good reasons. I am happy to try to persuade people of my point of view and I would have thought that anyone who cared enough to come onto threads like this with conviction they are right would be happy to do the same. However, with the lack of their reasons I am left wondering if they really have any or just like to be controversial?

Nonnie so far off the mark, I am not in the least controversial.

Must be that they don't have any reasons then - none that are worth defending anyway.

I've given my reasons before, on another thread months ago - I don't like the slow creeping federalisation of Europe (we have far less say in the EU than we do with our own Government and political system), I think joining the Euro currency would be a huge mistake (and if we stay in we will be made to join it eventually), and I think it is far better for our national economy to be a free player in the global economy, than tied to economies who are, for the most part, far weaker than ours. It simply isn't a level playing field, the weaker EU economies will hold us back, we will prosper far better on our own.

The poster known as Day6 has left Gransnet. I used to PM her quite often. She was really feeling quite down and in fact bullied on the Brexit threads. She was always articulate and reasoned in her posts, but she felt that some remainers on here bullied her. She became quite despondent about it all. I frequently advised her to avoid the Brexit threads, but she didn’t take my advice. I hope those of you, I won’t name any names, those of you who bullied Day6 are happy with yourselves. I think she’s a real loss to Gransnet because she was prepared to offer the opposing view. Discussion simply isn’t discussion if there is no opposing view. It’s a sorry state of affairs that this has happened.

And you think that there aren’t any remainers on here who don’t feel despondent?

You leavers will get your way - despite being in the minority as per the ongoing opinion polls. You can’t tell us what Brexit means in reality for any one of us, other than we’ll be ‘free’ of the EU.

So what we’re left with is many more years of uncertainty, instability and financial downturn waved away as ‘bumps in the road’ by rich Tories who stand to benefit from Brexit - that’s the only certainty.

If Day6 feels despondent about then that’s too bad - she voted for this mess and I feel no sympathy.