For Remainers Only

I don't think the article was saying anyone is surprised Pantglas2 but rather that Johnson lied - yet again.

Cameron played a blinder didn't he?

An article in The Independent is reporting that Junker has blasted Boris et al about the lies they told in the referendum and has taken our press to task for their lies.

He didn’t intervene!

Good. It has been apparent that was where they lay the blame but Johnson needed telling. His arrogance seems to blind him just as Cameron's did.

I notice some of those hosting politics programmes are still picking up and chiming out the words coming from No. 10 and Dominic Cummings. Perhaps it's time to have another look into press behaviour.

Pantglas; military?? I don't understand....

The euro and military?? More Project Fear - Brexiter-style!

What really upsets [annoys me] is that anything from 'project fear' that is proved to be correct is ignored, and yet the blatant lies spouted during the referendum campaign, which have been proved to be lies over and over again, are like a mantra and are repeated over and over again. It's as if a large portion of the population have been brainwashed. On top of this Johnson et al deny saying many of the lies [eg Turkey] even though there is video evidence of them saying it. Dystopian future anyone? We're living in it....

Nothing can be done in Parliament now without a GE, so without it this paralysis will continue.Does Labour think this is good for the UK, or is it so paralysed itself that it can’t decide anything at all? Once we have an extension, what is their excuse for not having an election? Fear that they will lose!

It seems the meeting of EU ambassadors has agreed to a further extension in principle but will not make the final decision on how long, etc., until next week. Limbo continues.

Parliament is not, apparently, going on "strike" as some Conservatives seemed to be briefing, they will just not bring anything Brexit. Perhaps it will just fade away.

I’m not a brexiter and do believe that in another forty years (possibly sooner) all members of the EU will use the euro and contribute to an EU armed force - are you suggesting those are bad things, Laibak and Growstuff?

Hello there, I've mentioned this before but because of the topic will encourage all to check it out. It's the UK's independent fact checking charity called fullfact.org

Their front webpage contains a plan English fact check analysis of claims made regarding Brexit and what is currently happening. It is too long to post here but please check it out. It begins:

'Boris Johnson's new Brexit deal: four key questions answered...'

i.e.

Q Could we have a no deal Brexit still in 2020 at the end of the transition?
Q. Does the new withdrawel agreement create a border in the Irish Sea/
Q. What would the economic impact of the deal be?
Q. Could the new deal reduce protections for environmental standards and workers rights?

I'm still getting my head round it.

painting

I'm neutral, Pantglas, but I sincerely wonder what the reason for your belief is.

It's pure spin that Parliament is paralysed. There's plenty of non-Brexit stuff it could be getting on with.

Why doesn't the Conservative Party want another referendum to check that people still feel the same after three and a half years and now the situation is clearer?

A General Election is a whole bundle of issues and would prove absolutely nothing.

Things never stay the same do they Growstuff? We joined a Common Market forty odd years ago and that’s grown into the EU we have now. In another forty odd years (I obviously won’t see it!) it will have changed even more and those two things are what I would bet on happening.

I hope that we get an extension until April or even June. That would give us enough time to hold a referendum and/or a general election without expecting the voters to turn out on a dark winters evening.

I don't think that we should leave the EU because something might happen in 40 years or so and, if we leave and it does we would have had no influence over it anyway. It's crazy that we're giving up any influence we have over future European affairs that will affect our children and grandchildren

well said Labaik

Exactly! Who would have thought that 40 years after 1945, there had been no major war in Western Europe? Or that the wall between the two Germanies was about to fall? Or that China was about to become a major world player?

Decisions are made in the context of the current situation and, hopefully, take account the short-term future. They need to be adjusted as situations change.

The UK has an opt out on joining the euro and on making military commitments to the EU. Why would that change? If circumstances were to change, then would be the time to have a rethink.

This is Project Fear - pure and simple!

What I don’t understand is that the deal was passed with a surprising vote, so Johnson knows he can get that through Parliament why did he withdraw it, and now that he has a deal he’s happy with why doesn’t he take no deal off the table no need for it.

all members of the EU will use the euro

I very much doubt that unless the 'rules' are radically changed. I think the Euro is shaky and needs radical overhaul. It may even collapse...

Although there is a requirement for new member states to eventually use the euro many of them are not exactly rushing into it. Adoption can be delayed for years.

As for this 'EU army' that apparently, on the strength of no evidence whatsoever our grandchildren are going to be conscripted into (with the unspoken corollary that Germany will be in command of it and thus complete their mission to dominate Europe started in the 20th C) I don't think that co-operation on defence and standardisation of equipment is at all a bad thing. We already participate in NATO and the UN Peacekeeping Force; where's the hysteria bout them?

Thank you maizieD - you summed it up succinctly. Why do people automatically assume someone is anti those two things happening when they make a comment on the likelihood of them eventually coming to pass?

Given how things transpired with the Common Market it seems totally logical to me!

I've just watched Politics Live with Nick Robinson chairing. One of the best I've seen in a long while.

Did anyone hear David Miliband this morning? It left me wondering how we have lost people like him and ended up with party apparatchiks like Johnson and Corbyn.

I believe he is right that the only democratic way to deal with this is another referendum now we have the detailed deal.

I did not hear it, but Yes I absolutely agree GG .