Can anyone apart from the elite, say what they want from Brexit

Ok grandad1943 let’s turn this around - where do you draw the line on these tiers of government? Shall we have a northern hemisphere senate next?

Then check out the Brexit humour thread where a far fetched intergalactic level has been introduced! Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it - but I remember when Wales had 8 counties then went to 22! With all the Financial, education, social services, highways, HR et cetera with their salaries/pensions/sick pay/annual leave.

It all costs money which I would prefer to be spent on raising the standard of living of the poorest in society.

Frankly I thing all these bogy men are grossly over-rated. All our troubles are caused by bad government and incompetence.

Absolutely, MOnica.

I'll try not to demonise the people who voted for the dreadful governments of the last 10 years...

Pantglas2, you have spoken up thread in regard to "layers of government" and in that indicated you would wish to see at least some of those layers removed.

All I have requested in this thread would be that forum members with views such as yourself inform others in what areas you would wish to see the "axe" fall on such layers of government?

It is not a "trap door" question but a respectful request.

I believe you may have made your post while I was dictating my own above. However, the area you speak on would I feel be under the jurisdiction of the Welsh Assembly.

I was in my post thinking in terms of what is under the jurisdiction of the Westminster and European Parliaments in regard to layers of government.

The intention of the elite Bexiteers would be what they see as an ultra-business-friendly environment, although this doesn't seem to include small business and hasn't for some years.

They intend to achieve this with low or zero corporation tax, low wages, weak trade unions, a remnant of current welfare provisions - already increasing those in poverty - and a significant temporary migrant ‘non-citizen’ workforce (around 30 per cent of the total workforce), largely without the protection of national labour laws or access to welfare provisions.

Could you plead tell me how that will improve the lives of people in this country, including I would guess, the majority if not all of us. If you are only improving th live of the 1% what is the point?

Please could somebody tell me.

GGMK3 nobody has even muted zero corporation tax, but if it happens I will be ecstatic.

GracesGranMK3, I very much agree that it is the intention of the Tory and Brexit Parties to create a deregulated, low tax and wages Britain. The foregoing would have to come about if their view of the United Kingdom having any chance of economic survival following Brexit.

Should trade deals come about with nations that have low regulation built into their economies then Britain would have to be the same if we are to have any chance of equality in competition with their industries.

However, what seems to escape such Brexiteers would be that should we carry out deregulation then advanced economic nations and trading blocks will place high tariffs on British exports to them, or it could mean that a trade agreement with the European Union may never be signed at all.

That is what Jeremy Corbyn has been addressing in the past few days.

Well there we go. I now know why you vote to leave GG13. You will be one who benefits from the increased poverty for the many. As for Corporation Tax, you will probably get your wish made, I suspect, because it will increase your unearned income.

Whether they wish it or not the excuse will be readily available, we will be forced to lower Corporation Tax in order to compete in the rest of the world.

I think I was previewing and missed you post Grandad but we are saying much the same thing.

GGMK3 You couldn’t be further off of the mark, we have a female member of staff going on maternity leave - 1 year full pay, have just given another member of staff whose early born GC “Grandparent leave” in full pay. We have a generous annual leave policy, and lots of “in-work” benefits that we pay for.

Business rates are ridiculous, we also have to pay for our rubbish to be collected on top.

As owners we pay our tax “up front” each year.

Our longest serving employees are 30,
26, and 20 years of service.

Typical remain voters bias to anyone in business that through hard work has achievements.

GrannyGravy13 in regard to your post @20:30 today, regulation on maternity and paternity leave are the same for every company, just as the regulations on annual leave, workplace safety and much else are equal to all employers and commerce.

In the above such regulations prevent "a race to the bottom" which would undoubtedly begin should such legislation be removed.

It should always be remembered that with such regulations in place and being a member of the European Union Britain became the fifth largest economy in the world.

Therefore I feel the above proves that such regulations are not any significant incumbrance to British industry and commerce whatsoever.

GG13 I think the well being of your employees speaks volumes - you go above and beyond legislation for worker’s rights - and this is reflected in the loyalty of the long service that is afforded to your family business. Well done you.

Urmstongran our workforce are appreciated for their hard work and loyalty. Yes of course we benefit, but so do they. In the lean times they got paid and we didn’t.

I’ve worked for folks like you GrannyGravy13 and I’d have walked through fire for them almost. My DD now has staff at her small business and I’ve advised her to go above and beyond the basics and it will be returned in spades. Great employers usually have great staff and long may it continue.

What did you live off in the lean times?

Aah we sold our “buy to let” property, reduced our mortgage, no holidays, no nights out and took our children out of private school.

Pantglas I have to agree re the layers of government.

All the layers of the taxpayer funded cake need money not just for all their running costs (and they do not stint themselves re lavish buildings, expenses etc), they all have their 'pet projects' which require funding, often at the cost of basic services.

No one, on this thread or any other, has the right to respectfully ask, or indeed to demand, that Leavers inform Remainers as to why they voted to leave the EU. I assume that none of you would, upon meeting a friend, or a colleague, or indeed anyone at all, none of you would demand an explanation as to why that person voted leave, assuming they stated that they did in a discussion. It’s bad manners to be so verbally aggressive, and it’s bad manners to demand an explanation for someone’s voting preference. Why therefore, would any Remainer on this site demand that Leavers explain themselves? I certainly have own opinions as to why Remainers voted as they did, but I have never demanded that they explain themselves, on or off this site.
Voting is conducted privately, it is no one’s business what a person’s reasons are for voting in a particular way. I think, with respect, that Remainers should back off. It’s not your business why any Gransnetter voted the way they did!

What a weird post Maidstone. Shall we just put it down to being late at night?

That was Maddyone not Maidstone.

The country voted by a slim, not a decisive, majority to leave the EU.

The Leave campaign was fraught with misleading information and outright lies.

The pursuit of a workable Brexit deal has cost vast sums of money.

The large majority of informed economic forecasts, from a variety of sources and perspectives, predict that most of us will be worse off after any sort of Brexit deal. Even some government ministers admit it.

The decision to leave the EU has profound and far-reaching effects on individuals and the country as a whole.

The government have been unable to tell us how we will be better off after Brexit than we were before.

Is it, therefore, so unreasonable that those who voted to remain in the EU should ask their most fervent leave-voting friends here on Gransnet for some sort of evidence-based reassurance that Remainers' fears are unfounded?
This is not the same as asking why anyone voted the way they did.

I understand the frustration of those who voted to leave, that Brexit is still dragging on. It is still dragging on because extricating ourselves from the EU is exceedingly complicated and everyone has wanted to get the best deal possible. I hope that leave voters can also understand the worries of remain voters, too.

Not trying to be confrontational here. Just anxious.

I have to agree with GracesGranMK3 in stating that it does seem to be a "very strange post" made by maddyone @23:51 yesterday.

This is a thread entitled "Can anyone apart from the elite, say what they want from Brexit". Therefore, I would believe that it would be obvious to the vast majority of forum members that anyone making a post on this thread would be willingly giving their views on Brexit and may well be asked questions on those views.

Should a forum member not wish to give those views or then not respond to any question asked of them, then they have the option of ignoring the entire thread completely or to ignore any question asked of them.

So, as stated, it seems a very strange post on this thread that states that forum members should not be asking questions of others on a thread that politely invited persons to willingly give their views.

In short, it's a forum in which any member can participate in a thread, or just read what is posted on a thread, or ignore the thread altogether.

If the aims of Brexit truly is to produce a deregulated, low tax society that would benefit the well off in society, this is a very shortsighted aim. Low tax means poorer services, deregulation means a free for all to rip off whoever you want, remember 2008 and the sub prime collapse.

That’s all very well for the fat cats that can make their fortune in a couple of years, the rest of us have to survive long term. As has been said in other posts if the UK does deregulate extensively there will be big tariffs on exports the latest Withdrawl Agreement does provide for that scenario.

The WA does start by envisaging a Free Trade Agreement but that is qualified by broadly equivalent standards and regulations. That will all be negotiated in the trade agreements in the coming year, so everything is still very uncertain, the eventual shape of trade after any transition cannot be foreseen.

Deregulation means less labour rights, less social services, lower environmental standards and poorer health services, this matches a lower tax regime. Is that is really what leavers want, at least a transition will soften the blow, in the end there are going a great many angry leavers when they don’t get the Utopia they voted for.

They won't believe you, David.

I disagree with you maddyone. Everyone has the right to ask why some people have chosen an option which will affect the lives of everybody in the country. Everyone has the right to know why something is being done to them

The people who made that decision do, of course, have the right to refuse to answer. However, they need to be aware of the impression that gives.