George Floyd Protests in Hyde Park

How do you explain So many countries in the continent of Africa?
They are disadvantaged largely compared to the rest of the world. Yet I guess you (not me??) would describe it as a black continent?

I support paddyanne’s post re Churchill sending troupes
to Wales. Tonypandy Riots 1910. He was hated in South Wales
for years.

lemongrove, I enjoy your contributions to discussions on gransnet but I find your comment, that "black people will always be at a disadvantage in a white country even though they were born there" dispiriting and in truth offensive. I have black and dual heritage friends, friends with Indian/Pakistani heritage and I don't want them to feel they live "in a white country". What does that even mean?
The world is very different than it was in the 1950's when I was growing up in a village with a US air base. The first black men I saw, were GI's from that air base. These days, that same village has a much more mixed population, not as varied as our cities but I don't feel I can, or want to, claim I live "in a white country".
Would you make the same claim about the USA?

Well I wouldn’t describe it as a white continent ( Africa)
A ‘white country’ simply means a country where historically all the people born and living there are white.Britain still has a majority of white people.BAME still only make up a small proportion of the population.

I’m interested in why if you think that ethnic minorities have a “natural disadvantage” in the U.K. because of ethnicity, why so many countries/people in Africa are so disadvantaged?

You can assume that I find your assumption about disadvantage appalling!

Yes, I do understand that lemon - but especially in the debate we're having here, it rankles.
Anyway, mustn't moan when I'm sure we aren't a million miles apart on this.
I am totally fed up with the moaning about Churchill. He was a man of his time in terms of attitudes. Additionally, he was like many men(people) who go into politics, or other areas where they are the centre of attention, an extremely flawed personality. His contribution to the war against Hitler can't be demolished by pointing out his many mistakes and flaws. Like most people here, I had parents who didn't vote for him after the war. They voted Labour. They described his flaws but didn't attempt to rubbish his achievements. He isn't in the same league as Colson and I'd be opposed to any attempts to remove his statues.

Iam64 I too have have Asian heritage friends.
We are a white country, of course we are, it’s simply a statement of fact.
That being the case, it’s sad but true that black people here have to work against prejudice, and this fact is true about any European country you can think of, and of course the US,
NZ OZ Canada etc.
What you can do is to have laws in place ( we have) to mitigate against this prejudice, but black people will always have more of a struggle to do well.They can do well of course and in the UK are represented in all the professions.
I am only pointing out that which is true in my posts.

Why does anyone think that black people wanted to protest at the weekend?Yes, it was about police treatment of a man in the US but also about how they often feel about living here .
Many European countries had the same protests too, those living in Spain, France and so on.

I repeat lemon, don't think we are a million ways apart on this, just I wouldn't chose to use the "white country" statement. Historically yes but I feel discomfort about using it now because it feels like white privilege.

Whitewave.... I think many in the BAME communities here feel disadvantaged, which is why they are going on marches.

It may feel that way Iam64 but for the purposes of this thread, which is about black people feeling they are regarded as ‘less’ living in countries that are predominantly white (which is surely the case) it makes sense.

It will take time...lots of time for prejudice to gradually disappear.Three hundred years ago slavery was in full swing,
Sixty years ago rooms for letting in cities could have signs saying ‘No Blacks or Irish’ on the door.
Things have moved on since then and will continue moving on, but it will take a lot longer yet.

Churchill. He was a man of his time in terms of attitudes
No he wasn't. He was a man with ideas which were considered unacceptable by many of his contemporaries. Even those in his own party considered his views extreme. And at the same time as he lived there were others campaigning and working for equality and internationalism. He was simply a biased, upper class racist.

trisher He may well have been.....but that isn’t why he has a statue.

Churchill is honoured for being a strong PM when we needed one.

growstuff in regard to several of your above posts where you advise that you have read widely on Churchill and the second world war, can I suggest that what you have read must be wildly inaccurate.

In 1940 Hitler certainly did have the military capacity (at least on paper) to bring Britain to its knees and force it's surrender or make the United kingdom accept quisling terms of self-government.

Britains did succeed in evacuating three hundred and thirty thousand of its armed forces personal from the Dunkirk beaches but that army left all its equipment behind. Hitler's forces could have invaded Britain at that time by way of small boats, in the same manner as the UK had brought its army back from France. However, Hitler's first requirement was to defeat the RAF in the air, which resulted in the Battle Of Britain and the Royal Navy at sea, which resulted eventually in the Battle Of The Atlantic.

Britain overcame all of the above under the leadership of Winston Churchill, whose extraordinary speech oration in those dark days inspired this nation to carry on with the war effort despite being alone and without allies until 1942.

Some forum members seem to dismiss all the above in thier posts as being of nothing and in that they, without doubt, totally insult those who lived through those terrible days and sacrificed so much in the process.

In regard also to those in this thread that have stated that Winston Churchill was racist in his character, then I believe he held no more views than that which was common in Britain throughout the decades of his life. Indeed it was not until the Bristol Bus Company campaign in regard to accepting ethnic workers into employment on those buses that any real debate in regard to racism came about in Britain.

In regard to the Grenfell Tower tragedy, that came about due to the David Cameron led LibDem coalition government commitment to remove all workplace safety legislation from British businesses in favour of "self-governance".

The first act in the above was to allow companies to self certify building materials in regard to its safe use. That as the Grenfell enquiry has already determined brought about that tragedy on the night of the 14th June 2017.

So, growstuff, the political party that you declared on this forum to be in support of at that time were very much in responsibility for the disaster that came about at Grenfell Tower.

what happened to 'not talking ill of the dead' . you wouldn't be breathing the air of life if it hadn't been for the steadfastness of Churchill strategy winning ww2..
I'm sure I wouldn't want to mix with the likes of some of you posters on here hiding behind made up names while calling others names! Over and OUT!!!!

Well said Grandad.

Agree lemsip, day in and day out the haters on here decry out great country.

why so many countries/people in Africa are so disadvantaged?

Could it be anything to do with their corrupt governments WWmk2? Elections that are overtly rigged, government ministers who come over to Harrods with a retinue of wives on a designer spending spree whilst their own country doesn’t even provide fresh water for their citizens? They don’t even look after their own, for shame.

Good post Grandad

I have mentioned Dr Paul Stephenson and his stance against racism in Bristol, some of which involved the Bristol Bus Company's refusal to employ black drivers, before on this thread. However, it has been steadfastly ignored.

I understood that Hiler's intention was to target GB next for invasion and that he had chosen Dover Castle as his HQ.

Urmstongran
War and corruption on a continent rich in resources and with enough rich land to feed the whole continent.

Grandad
I have followed this thread all the way through, and I agree with every post you have written. Well said on your last post.

Urmstongran
Your post at 10.12 is absolutely correct. Corruption in the African states is well known. The tragedy is that whilst the leaders live in gated communities protected by armed guards, the ordinary people frequently have little or no access to medical care, or even clean water to drink.

Re the discussion on ‘white country’ or ‘black country’, it may be a clumsy description, but simply means a country with a majority black or majority white population. I wouldn’t use the expressions myself but am able to understand the meaning.

Once again Grandad, you've written an excellent post explaining things exactly as they were all those years ago. It is so easy to criticise from the comfort and safety of our arm chairs 70 ++ years later using the perspective of modern attitudes. People generally thought and behaved so differently many years ago which I think we have to take account of and accept. I sometimes think that people on here simply don't understand how appalling Hitler was! He had to be stopped, no matter what the cost, and it was high!
My DH has an ancestor who had a sugar plantation in Jamaica, family history has told us! He was a Scot - Edinburgh!! Sorry Paddyann!!!

Hitler was one of the worst racists of all time. He had six million Jewish people murdered by gas, bullet, starvation or torture. He was also responsible for the deaths of millions of non Jews. He considered all Eastern Europeans as ‘untermensch’ meaning inferior people/races. He most certainly wanted to invade Britain and was only prevented from doing so initially by The Battle of Britain, fought in the air by the ‘few’ as Churchill described our airmen. Later he was fighting in the East which tied up many of his soldiers and he was therefore not in a position to invade Britain.

Excellent post Grandad1943; Even though I was not born back in those days of Churchill I still posted earlier on in this thread that he done his job of P.M. at the time and took this country through the war years and brought victory over Hitler.
Too many on here are forgetting the war effort of all those service men and women who gave their lives to leave a better legacy for the future of the U.K. I think Paddyanne you said on this thread that no Irishman would have a good word for Churchill as they saw him for what he was.
I disagree with that remark as my parents and their siblings had come and settled in U.K just before the war and lived through it, we grew up hearing stories of what a terrible time the war was and how Hitler was a monster and committed terrible war crimes against men women and children, he had to be stopped and the victory went to those of the U.K. and thanks to God for all of them.