Institutional racism in the police?

That’s the issue, though, Lemongrove. It’s not necessary for an action to be deliberately racist. It could be something like police assuming that these were two women who were black and lived on a council estate and therefore were ‘the type’ of people who’d do something of this kind.

On another aspect, the police have stated clearly that they were murdered by a stranger. I don’t know how the police can be so certain and I don’t understand why, if that is the case, they are not putting out strong warnings for people to take extra care.

Or.....two grown women who were together and had been partying with friends SueDonim into the small hours of Saturday, who could have gone on somewhere together....this is what the police would initially think.We should not fall into the trap of thinking the police will not search or care about anyone who is either black or rents a council house.

Does living on a council estate make one ‘a type’

That’s exactly what their mother does think - that a certain address = reputation for troublesome people and so no one took it seriously.

To my mind, for two sisters to disappear and neither of them be answering their phones for hours, and presumably not being at their homes, would be a cause for concern.

I think all there is left to say is that no assumptions should be made by anyone at this point about police procedure.
What the two policeman guarding the scene did was awful, and a different thing altogether, I think we would all agree on that.

Perhaps some GNers are not totally aware of how the family dealt with this. Too many suppositions in comments here are being made.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000khd5

32.32 - the mother talking to Martin Bashir. She makes a point of saying there are good police

Again, their mother thinks so. As a member of the clergy, I’d trust her judgment.

Smallman attacked the police response when her daughters were reported missing, accusing officers of “making assumptions”, and she said: “I knew instantly why they didn’t care. They didn’t care because they looked at my daughter’s address and thought they knew who she was. A black woman who lives on a council estate.”

They had two different addresses Sue lived in different boroughs.

What difference does that make? The police may just have heard that one address and immediately dismissed everything else as irrelevant.

So much supposition SueD and supposition does not make it factual.

The address was known to the police ?

Exactly. That’s why there’s a police watchdog investigation into it.

Sue Donim I am intrigued by your comment that you would "trust her mother's judgment as a member of the clergy". Does that mean you would not trust the judgment of someone of no professed religion?
Sadly I agree that there is institionalised racism in most organisations which needs to be rooted out & dealt with. In my job I occasionally have to deal with people who go missing. In my experience unless they are underage or vulnerable it would be unlikely that police would instigate a search within 24 hours (dreadful for the families but adults can "choose to go missing").

Tbh, I’m a trusting soul (not always to my advantage, it has to be said!) and do in the first instant tend to believe people. In this case, being a woman of the cloth, I cannot imagine that their mother would be saying something she didn’t believe because it would, I hope, be against her principles to do so. I don’t know what she would gain by saying something that she doesn’t think is true.

Which actually I’m not sure really answers your question, but I suppose I’m maybe saying that I hold them to higher standards. Strange really, as I’m an atheist.

I also don't doubt that she believed it to be true & it may well be (hopefully the investigation will give some answers). The mother has shown such dignity in the face of what must be an unbearable tragedy for the whole family.

Sorry I didn't mean that personally Sue Donim.
It just got me thinking about attitudes to gender, race, profession & how we perceive things. Best go to bed now methinks.

There is some speculation as to the various statements that have been made. Initially a representative of the police said they firmly believed a "stranger" attacked the two women but I don't know how that could have been established so quickly and anyway that line doesn't seem to be so strong now. Possibly they have other information that they are not divulging. I believe it is the case that people are usually murdered by someone they know.

Whatever the outcome regarding who committed the crimes, the very fact the mother believes her daughters' "disappearance" was not taken seriously enough suggests that there is a problem regarding trust in the police. I don't believe these feelings - expressed by many black people -are imaginary. It would suggest that vast numbers of black people - or indeed any group of people who feel they are routinely discriminated against - are either deliberately dishonest or unreliable due to psychological instability.

Having your daughters' dead bodies used as a backdrop for selfies would, I imagine, reinforce the already simmering feeling that their lives had been of no particular importance.

As I stated earlier in the thread the police only release what they choose to and usually have a good reason for holding back information. It may well be that they weren’t murdered by a stranger.

We can only wait and see and hope that whoever did this is caught.

On a different note, does this mean the sisters can’t have a funeral yet?

I’ve just heard an announcement on Sky News. The police have arrested an eighteen year old man in connection with the murder of the two women in the park. That’s good news.

If it’s the right person I wonder if he tried to rob them and they fought back and it’s ended up as a double murder? Just tragic.

Maddyone : I also heard an announcement that they have arrested an eighteen year old man at a London address in connection with the murder of the two sisters. Seems so young to be killing women if he done it then he will have to face the consequences. All tragic.

3nanny6
Yes, I agree, the whole thing is very sad. An eighteen year old has thrown his life away, if he’s the one who did it. Plus the loss of two lovely young women, and the mother’s grief. So sad.

since a person has been arrested in connection with this investigation, i think we ought not to comment on it further.
we could still discuss racism or not in the police, but not in connection with this case.
might be better to start a new thread.

welbeck

since a person has been arrested in connection with this investigation, i think we ought not to comment on it further.
we could still discuss racism or not in the police, but not in connection with this case.
might be better to start a new thread.

I agree welbeck but

The thread had two parts to it, The second part was about Institutional racism in the police.

Someone has been arrested for the murder but the police watchdog is separately investigating how Met Police handled calls from the sisters' concerned family and friends after they failed to return home and didn't answer phone calls.

The police officers have been suspended but we may or may not be told what will happen to them.