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Vaccine - I’m seriously concerned about this

(80 Posts)
ayse Mon 31-Aug-20 17:22:08

CONSULTATION ON VACCINE ROLL-OUT: CALL TO ACTION

This consultation has just been launched, and we only have until 18th September to respond, via this survey consultations.dhsc.gov.uk/5f43b8aca0980b6fc0198f9f?fbclid=IwAR2l0heUZE7j0wknFftX1ckIe1RurcoZVvk0OFs1GduOHl60qSgtBerdxi0

Very important that as many people as possible respond.

I've read through quickly and have listed some of the main points of the consultation, with a few suggestions for arguments to make in response, to kick off a discussion. Please comment with further suggestions.

To summarise:

1) The Human Medicine Regulations already give the government the legal right to authorise an unlicensed COVID-19 vaccine. If a vaccine was available before the end of the transition period, but hadn't been licensed by the European Medicines Agency, it could be rolled out unlicensed BEFORE THE END OF 2020.

2) There is already reduced liability for manufacturers of unlicensed medicines:
"The current legal framework already recognises that if manufacturers or healthcare professionals are asked to supply an unlicensed medicine in response to a public health threat, it is unfair also to ask them to take responsibility for the consequences of the use of that medicine in the way that they normally would."

3) The government is proposing to "clarify" the legislation by extending this exemption from liability to pharmaceutical companies placing unlicensed products (ie vaccines) on the market, to give them the "assurance that they will not be exposed inappropriately to civil liability."

4) There is provision within the regulations to remove immunity for civil liability for "serious breaches" of conditions. The government is suggesting that there should be an "objective test" of whether the breach is serious enough for immunity to be removed. They are considering whether the "objective bystander" should be another pharmaceutical company (I kid you not ?) or "the man or woman in the street".

5) There will be an enormous expansion in the workforce legally allowed to administer vaccines, to include "midwives, nursing associates, operating department practitioners, paramedics, physiotherapists and pharmacists."

6) The government is proposing a relaxation of rules to allow advertising of unlicensed products, including the Covid-19 vaccine, and to allow promotion through national campaigns.

Ideas for inclusion in response:

1) Authorising an unlicensed vaccine could be detrimental to safety, and could potentially cause injury and death. This is a very dangerous proposal, and should be rejected.

2) The suggestion that the vaccine could possibly be rolled out before the end of the transition period has very worrying implications for safety. Vaccines normally take 8-10 years to develop.

3) Given the reduced time frame for safety testing, there should be no exemptions for liability. If pharmaceutical companies are encouraged to prioritise speed of development over safety, and are exempted from any liability if things go wrong, there could be disastrous consequences. The fast-tracked H1N1 vaccine caused serious lifelong side effects, including narcolepsy, to a significant number of people.

4) Given the history of bribery and corruption within the industry, pharmaceutical companies should not be designated "objective bystanders", in considering whether there has been a breach serious enough to remove immunity for civil liability. This should be the role of the "man or woman in the street", in keeping with the legal traditions of the UK.

5) Any advertising of the vaccine should carry a clear health warning that it has been fast-tracked and therefore not all the usual safety tests have been carried out. It should also state that it is unlicensed (if this proposal is adopted).

6) There will clearly be risks to taking this vaccine, so it should not be made mandatory, nor should access to the workplace or any other aspect of society be made conditional on taking it. Where there is risk, there must be choice. Forced medical procedures may be routine in totalitarian dictatorships, banana republics and police states, but they have no place in a democracy or any civilised society.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu/consultation-document-changes-to-human-medicine-regulations-to-support-the-rollout-of-covid-19-vaccines?fbclid=IwAR1xQRP53_SMIfKMrUenLYDbgwJvoE2PYY8laU6BDvfXIbqScyPdP8PAqSQ#responding-to-this-consultation

janeainsworth Thu 03-Sep-20 18:21:42

You just try to help people to look to a wider awareness and just get told it's nonsense!

NannyC2 I’m open to listening to other people’s opinions and increasing my knowledge and awareness through properly researched, evidence-based articles in reputable journals.
What I’m not open to are fake news and bad science.
Yesterday you posted this:
“(t)here is no evidence whatsoever of the ability of vaccines to prevent any diseases.”“To the contrary, there is a great wealth of evidence that they cause serious side effects.”

That is not only nonsense, it is dangerous nonsense, but I’m quite confident that the vast majority of Gransnet members will recognise it as such.

I ask you again, what was your role in the NHS?

MawB2 Thu 03-Sep-20 19:13:45

You just try to help people to look to a wider awareness and just get told it's nonsense!

Well when it IS nonsense/fake news whichever you prefer, without any understanding of the medical facts, what do you expect?

How can NannyC2 protest she is not anti-vaxx and yet come up with such arrant and dangerous nonsense as this

(t)here is no evidence whatsoever of the ability of vaccines to prevent any diseases
Citing a retired geologist renowned for her anti-vaxx theories (which have been disproved by the medical fraternity) does not make things true!
A little knowledge can indeed be a dangerous thing and there may be people reading such pronouncements who believe them and cancel their children’s MMR or polio immunisations.
Never mind Covid, there have already been cases of measles in recent months even resulting in fatalities.
Enough pseudo-science!

janipat Thu 03-Sep-20 19:15:08

Smallpox was eradicated by vaccination. Many other diseases have been seriously curtailed by vaccination, polio for example, for which there is no cure. Rubella vaccine has saved innumerable babies from being born with severe disabilities. I shall have a vaccination against this virus the minute I'm able to, and have also volunteered for any testing project.

janipat Thu 03-Sep-20 19:47:49

ayse sorry I've contributed to your thread going offtrack. 3 of the vaccines in development now are going through clinical testing unlike the H1N1 vaccine. I can't imagine our government would even consider making it compulsory, and anyone taking it would surely be aware it has been developed and tested extremely quickly. If you want to wait until the developers can say with absolute certainty that no ill effects will follow, then we'll not get a vaccine for many years, if ever. No medical procedure or drug is without any hazard. I do agree though that it has to be presented in a clear and honest way.