Starmer's speech to the virtual LP conference

Corbyn supported the IRA

And British under cover officers were responsible for some terrible actions in N.Ireland (and possibly South of the border in Ireland). No one in the Irish Troubles comes out with much honour be they IRA, British or Loyalist (which has always seemed a misnomer to me but gave them a better cover for the things they did). But what that has to do with a bill which gives British soldiers freedom from prosecution for torture and rape I don't know.

Here's a rationale for abstaining rather than voting against the bill.

By Dan Jarvis, Labour MP for Barnsley

www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/overseas-operations-bill-is-damaging-to-both-our-troops-and-our-international-standing

From what I can work out Labour would support the prevention of litigation against forces personnel for acts in combat, but not for cases of torture. The bill covers all acts including torture. I think they are intending to go for amendments to this effect. I would hope that should their amendments fall then they would vote against the bill.

But I'm not entirely positive about this.

The people who did not like the previous leadership have got what they wanted. Jeremy Corbyn is no longer leader of the Labour Party. This thread was started to discuss the new leadership.
Is it really necessary therefore, to continue to make nasty remarks about Jeremy Corbyn, that have been made so many, many times before on previous threads.

Ruth Smeeth is a US informant according to Wikileaks

twitter.com/Obscure_Rebel/status/1308898344408944644?s=20

It must be true ?

A great statement from Nadia Whittome- twitter.com/NadiaWhittomeMP/status/1309066157987639298/photo/2
When Amnesty International, the British Legion and The Equalities Commission oppose legislation you have to think it needs some opposition.

No one should be sacked for speaking out says Keir
twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/1308916707822632961?s=20

My understanding, happy to be corrected, is that opposition would have meant the government one. It’s a delaying tactic with the aim of ensuring some measures are subject to debate.
More racism towards Ruth Smee I note.

Murky World
www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/07/22/smee-j22.html

Grany

No one should be sacked for speaking out says Keir
twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/1308916707822632961?s=20

They were sacked for not doing what they were told to do. Completely different thing.

But voting in Parliament is a way of speaking out MaizieD I mistrust anyone who insists someone has to vote against their conscience. Sadly I think Starmer has just exhibited his real values. There was a real case for opposing this bill, an opportunity for real oposition thrown away. The UN has criticised the British position. www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uks-torture-record-rightly-criticised-united-nations

There was a real case for opposing this bill,

I'm hazy on the protocol, trisher, but if Iam is correct, if this bill had been won without abstensions the LP wouldn't have been able to propose amendments.

As it is, there seems to be partial agreement with the powers in it which stop malicious or vexatious litigation against them for carrying out their duties, but it also covered freedom from prosecution for torture. Which the LP opposes.

I can see absolutely no reason why Starmer should require abstention if the party were totally against the bill. But it isn't...

I think that convention goes that if you are in Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet you don't rebel against the party line. If you want to rebel you resign.

Grany your comments about Ruth Smeeth show what a hill Starmer has to climb with the far left, and why there has been a culture of antisemitism in the last few years within the LP membership, which has been quietly accepted up to now.

lemongrove it isn't anti-semitic to think there are people working to further Israel's interests in Britain. In fact there are Israelis who openly admitted working against Jeremy Corbyn.
Watch Joe Glasman
electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/we-slaughtered-jeremy-corbyn-says-israel-lobbyist
It isn't anti-semitic to think someone who has worked for Nestle may not be as principled as they pretend. I have friends who have boycotted Nestle for years.

There are also people working to further the Palestinian cause as well ( Corbyn amongst them I expect) but that seems to be quite ok, doesn't it? Israel bad/ Palestinian Good....
It’s not that simple though is it?
Many within the LP membership seem to think that it is that simple though.

Starmer will, with any luck, root out all the overt anti-semitism within the LP ....nothing much he can do if it’s hidden of course.It flourished under Corbyn but that’s history now. Bring it into the light and stamp on it.

Of course there are supporters of the Palestinian cause working to establish human rights in Palestine lemon and trying to attract support. However I don't label people who disagree with them whereas there are people who use the term anti-semitic to describe those who are concerned about Israeli influence. It really diminishes something which has historically caused dreadful suffering to use the term for political ends.

Let's get this straight Jeremy Corbyn fought against racism all forms of racism including antisemitism all his life. When he became leader he put in measures reforms to eradicate antisemitism from the the Party. Jeremy Corbyn is a decent man.

Let's see if Starmer proves himself able.

There was a backlog of cases left behind by Ian McNicol With Jenny Formby n charge there were very few, more in Tory party as well as Islamaphobia and society as a whole. Now as we know there was the right or centrists in the Party working against Jeremy and not as they should dealing with the antisemitism cases. And as far as the Palestinian cause is concerned I know Israel has a lot to answer for. Lemon

www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/israel/palestine

Grany - you have said:

"Now as we know there was the right or centrists in the Party working against Jeremy and not as they should dealing with the antisemitism cases."

I thought these were allegations and that they were not proven yet. I heard that the leaked report that contained such allegations had been quoted from selectively and out of context. Others claim this is untrue.

Hopefully the report from the EHRC, which has been investigating allegations of anti-semitism in the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn, will uncover what was actually going on and lay the matter to rest.

Until then, it is surely premature to say "we know" as you have done.

A political cabinet with a proven track record of sabotage, dishonesty and incapability, from top to bottom.

rachaelswindon.blogspot.com/2020/09/starmers-labour-standard-bearers-for.html?spref=tw

Criticising the current Isreali government isn’t AS. Denying there has been a problem with AS in the Labour Party in recent years flies in the face of the evidence.

Grany - ooh - a "political" Cabinet - heaven forbid! How dare they be political? Who do they think they are and what on earth do they think they should be doing!

Your first sentence describes Johnson's Cabinet to a T, only you've only you've missed out the word "incompetent".

As for "Ms Swindon", I'm just as entitled to my opinion as she is. She loved Jeremy Corbyn and I didn't so now Keir Starmer is her new enemy. It's all so boringly predictable......

I would guess that Starmer has a personal interest in addressing antisemitism in the Labour Party as his wife and children are Jewish.