The other title is totally out of sink- this is orchestrated fascism

What part of the mention of the film caused befuddlement?

MaisieD I did NOT say the voting was rigged. I said the only legitimate way was for him to PROVE it was rigged.

I don’t read Facebook. It was just an observation that I would have thought a technological rich country like the USA could have a better way of counting its votes so that there is no or little scope for argument, in any election, whoever wins.

25Avalon

MaisieD I did NOT say the voting was rigged. I said the only legitimate way was for him to PROVE it was rigged.

I don’t read Facebook. It was just an observation that I would have thought a technological rich country like the USA could have a better way of counting its votes so that there is no or little scope for argument, in any election, whoever wins.

In which case I think you're being naive. Methods of vote counting vary from state to state. They are all legally regulated. All the state returning officers (or what ever they're called) have said that the law has been scrupulously observed. I could go with a few fraudulent votes from state to state but that there should be 7million is completely ludicrous.

Trump and the Republicans did their best to disenfranchise voters they thought would vote Democrat, by making it just more difficult to vote in Democrat leaning states, but it didn't work.

And I have to say that our UK method of casting and counting votes is equally open to fraud...There will always be people who try to cheat. Fortunately they are a very tiny percentage of any population.

Really? Voting systems are very important and what ever system you have it is important that it is held in a fair manner, whatever party you support. That means it has to be regulated to be as fair as possible. Then there can be no argument.

Well yes the film thing totally befuddled me. Talking of judi dench.....

Lucca It was biba who mentioned Tea with Mussolini which was on tv last night, with Judi Dench and it went on from here.

I thought we could have carried on with the film allegories, so I mentioned An Ocean Between Us

Perhaps another thread, another time

biba70

What part of the mention of the film caused befuddlement?

All of it.

Tea with Mussolini - was that about 90 years ago?

I think what biba is saying is that individuals sometimes have real difficulty in recognising the danger in leaders. They continue believing the opposite even when the truth or evidence is there before their eyes. Indeed some of course will believe in a facist leader because they are facist themselves.

I’m surprised you didn’t understand that

It seems that Twitter have released Trump's account.

Well, at least he has clarified what everyone expected:

"To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th,"

But it was too much to hope that he would then shut up:

"The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future,"
"They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!"

Taken from CNN
edition.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/donald-trump-next-steps/index.html

And as CNN point out, "He made no mention of a Capitol Police officer who died overnight from injuries sustained while engaging rioters."

25Avalon

Really? Voting systems are very important and what ever system you have it is important that it is held in a fair manner, whatever party you support. That means it has to be regulated to be as fair as possible. Then there can be no argument.

What are you objecting to, then? The relevant authorities in the US are satisfied that the vote was fairly and legally carried out.

You weren't seriously suggesting a re-run, were you?

Not unless it was shown to be rigged which it hasn’t been. I’d just like to have a system there was no room for Trump to claim it was.

I think what biba is saying is that individuals sometimes have real difficulty in recognising the danger in leaders

God Bless Her Majesty

25Avalon

Not unless it was shown to be rigged which it hasn’t been. I’d just like to have a system there was no room for Trump to claim it was.

Yes, I agree

It is an odd system

What is so 'odd' about it?

There are 50 states in the US Federation. They all make their own rules on their voting systems and they run a number of different systems between them. This is because each state enjoys a considerable amount of what we call 'sovereignty'. It's like when, in happier days, we used to vote for MEPs. Each member state had its own voting system. It's been going on for along, long time. Nearly 400 years, no less. So which 'system' are you two querying?

I don't think any US President (or losing presidential candidate) has ever quarrelled with it or questioned the result. Nor have they spent the months running up to the election telling their followers that there is going to to be unimaginable amounts of cheating going on to deprive him of a second term...

I'm at a loss to understand why you are querying it now, unless you have some sympathy for Trump and his case...
Or do you always suspect some sort of cheating in US Presidential elections?

P.S. I agree that it's an 'odd' system, but the USA is happy with it.

It has not been going on for 400 years unless you were one of the 13 original states. Other areas as the US expanded were territories which applied to join at much later dates. Pre civil war admission depended on whether they were slave or free.

Are the US happy with the current system?

I think what biba is saying is that individuals sometimes have real difficulty in recognising the danger in leaders

For an observation of the bleeding obvious this is up there with the best of them!

I only have sympathy for Trump if he can prove voting was rigged which it seems he can’t. I don’t have sympathy for the scenes we saw yesterday. I would like to see more of a water tight system of vote counting so we avoid these situations.

MawBe

^I think what biba is saying is that individuals sometimes have real difficulty in recognising the danger in leaders^

For an observation of the bleeding obvious this is up there with the best of them!

25Avalon

I only have sympathy for Trump if he can prove voting was rigged which it seems he can’t. I don’t have sympathy for the scenes we saw yesterday. I would like to see more of a water tight system of vote counting so we avoid these situations.

What is not 'watertight' about 'the system' ( in fact, which of the systems are you talking about?)

Why this election?
Which Americans aren't happy about their system (apart from the Trump adherents)?

You're throwing out these assertions with no evidence for them. A bit like Trump, really...

merlotgran best laugh I've had all day!

To be fair to Avalon, I don't think it would matter one iota what voting system was used, Trump would only agree with the result if he was the winner. He's so mentally unstable (imo) that any incidence of him losing anything, tips him over the edge into insanity; he just can't cope with losing anything. Not exactly a positive character trait for an elected position of power. I wish they'd get him gone now before he does any more harm.

They all make their own rules on their voting systems and they run a number of different systems between them

Odd

My mother was studying in Munich in 1932- it took her a while to realise what was going on and return home

Lucky her to return to the sanctuary of a neutral country.
My father fought facism.
FIL lost his life doing just that

Do we really have to point that out?

Callistemon

^They all make their own rules on their voting systems and they run a number of different systems between them^

Odd

I know it seems odd, but, the states have sovereignty. They very much make many of their own laws. Did you miss my analogy with voting for MEPs? No-one thinks that all the member states' different voting arrangements are 'odd'. The USA is a Federation of states, not a single country (or even a 'Union' of countries) ruled from the centre.