Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

Alegrias1 - not worthy of a reply ?

The Alex Salmond debacle is very much ongoing, it should be an interesting case to watch JMcD

Scottish nobility are no longer in charge here, lemongrove, and anyway, most of them seem to be educated privately in England, so are not much part of daily life. Can I remind you too that there are other ways of being closer to Europe than being in the EU? Norway has better trading links with the EU than Brexit Britain, for example, and that is another possibility for an independent Scotland.

As for Scots (how would you define that?) who live elsewhere in the UK voting in an independence referendum, I have a relation who has lived in England for 50 years and who would vote No, in spite of having very little idea of what life here is like now. He gets incensed at the very thought of independence, and he has the right to his opinion, but I don't think he has the right to decide what happens here any more. Unlike my friend down the road, who is English but has lived here for 20 years. I don't know his views on independence, but whatever they are, I feel that he has the right to vote on them. In passing, I would say that he never feels that he has to change his accent or speak like the locals to be accepted!

Wheniwasyourage I have a relation who has lived in England for 50 years and who would vote No, in spite of having very little idea of what life here is like now

That’s quite a extreme example, though.
How would you feel if one of your AC had gone to work in London for say, two years? Should they be denied a say in Scotland’s future, having been born & brought up there?

Conversely what if one of my AC had been working in Scotland for two years? Would that give them the right to a vote?

I’m not arguing either way BTW. I just think it raises an interesting question about eligibility to vote.

‘Scottish nobility are no longer in charge here’......really? ?
So things have changed a bit in the last 300 years then, who’d a thunk it.

Actually I think Scottish people living elsewhere in the UK should have voting rights in a referendum.Recent immigrants from many different countries who have settled in Scotland were able to vote weren’t they? Yes, they had arrived in Scotland but came from EU and other countries from around the world, whereas Scottish people who were born and bred in Scotland and may have had to live elsewhere due to all sorts of reasons couldn’t do the same.

I think that if the Scottish people want a referendum they should have it. If the result is independence for them then so be it but I for one would be incredibly saddened to lose an old , trusted and staunch friend.

A word about "angry, divisive" referendums.

The run up to the 2014 referendum was exciting. We'd talk about Barnett Consequentials in the queue for the ladies and federalisation options in the canteen at work. People in Scotland were politically active and for a few days, the power was with us.

I have friends who voted yes and friends who voted no. They're all still my friends, apart from the one who told me I was being led astray by "that man off the telly". People had good reasons to be on both sides of the vote and discussing them like adults was a joy.

This myth that the referendum was divisive has been created by the Better Together camp after the event, to try to disrupt plans for another one. Bizarrely, its the side who won who have come up with this idea.

Untrue Alegrias .....we met two Scottish couple on holiday a couple of years ago, one couple were moving house because of being targeted ( in their village) for their views and the other couple were considering leaving Scotland altogether.
In some places in Scotland things became very personal and even aggressive at times.

Too much use of the word couple in my post?

janeainsworth, I see your point about people moving into or out of Scotland for a short time and whether or not they should have a vote. I think that if people move and register to vote somewhere, they can vote there. If someone moves away but maintains an address in Scotland as they expect to be back, they can vote. If someone chooses to move here to live and work ,and registers, they can vote. Any other arrangement would be a nightmare to organise.

I have Scottish and English friends living in Scotland who voted in different ways in 2014 and we are still friends. Once again, what Alegrias1 said!

I would put money on Scotland becoming independent and the two Irelands uniting, probably within 5 years. Scotland and N Ireland voted to remain in the EU.

Espana

I think that if the Scottish people want a referendum they should have it. If the result is independence for them then so be it but I for one would be incredibly saddened to lose an old , trusted and staunch friend.

But you're not going to lose them. They're not going to cut Scotland adrift from the British land mass!

No Gwyneth none of your taxes would be paid to an independent Scotland, and no Scottish taxes would be paid to an independent Westminster.

In terms of wealth per head, the Scottish central belt generates as much wealth as much of London and the South. The North-East (the home of the mythical Aberdonian miser) contributes the most per head.

A question for everyone - how much per head does your region generate for the UK economy, and how much is spent per head there by Westminster?

Independence is NORMAL ....thats all there is to it .If I were to tell our Unionist friends here that WE in Scotland will take over the reins of the mismanaged UK ,that we'll take all the revenue and give you a % of what you hand over ..oh and if we decide to build a bridge to the moon you'll be responsible for 92 % of the debt ...I'd guess you'd be up in arms.It appears its OK for Scotland to be treated like this and constantly talked down ?
THIS is my country I want better for it than we've had for centuries ,2nd city of the Empire they used to call Glasgow in the days when WM took 75% of our revenue ( its on record ,used to be published) people were living in squalor in slum conditions while money earned and taxed here went south .
It may be history but it hasn't really changed !

Having read through the thread I have decided I am too far out of my depth to comment but would like to say that some very eloquent and articulate Scots have given me a greater understanding of their feelings. Thanks.

Some figures. Speak for themselves.

I totally agree with you Flicker. United we stand divided we fall. It's too late for all these regional languages now too. We all speak English fluently. Let's stick to it. As a previous poster said Welsh or Gaelic is not spoken anywhere else in the world, so is not as valuable as learning French or Spanish.

Thank you Elegran for your reply and also Maizie for referring me to Elegran’s earlier post.

Welsh is an official language, I didn’t speak Welsh when I went to England or Scotland or France

Surely no-one who has seen the disastrous consequenses of puting unnecessary borders between the UK and the EU, the huge explosion in bureaucracy, cost and delays, could ever ever contemplate putting up a border between Scotland and the rest of the UK????

Exactly varian! It would be daft.

Gwyneth

Just a thought but if Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP do manage to get a referendum shouldn’t everyone in the UK be allowed to vote? After all this will affect everyone living in the UK to a degree. I have many friends living in Southern Ireland and they have all said that if there was a referendum re a United Ireland they would most definitely want to be given the opportunity to vote on this as well as those living in Northern Ireland.

Those are two separate voting ideas though.

Unless you think everyone in the EU should have been given a vote on brexit?

(the home of the mythical Aberdonian miser)

I must say that my Scottish friends are amongst the most generous people I know, particularly my dearest friend.

Anniebach

Welsh is an official language, I didn’t speak Welsh when I went to England or Scotland or France

An Australian spoke Welsh to me in Australia, Anniebach! He was very disappointed that I didn't understand him.

varian

Surely no-one who has seen the disastrous consequenses of puting unnecessary borders between the UK and the EU, the huge explosion in bureaucracy, cost and delays, could ever ever contemplate putting up a border between Scotland and the rest of the UK????

Border between Norway and Sweden. Google it. ?

Two countries behaving like grown ups, one in the EU and one not. They worked it out. No hard border. Works like clockwork.

Apparently the wolves and bears cross over all the time. That's one thing we won't have to worry about.