Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

I thought they did, Casdon, but like you I now can't find any evidence - their website says "throughout Scotland". I seem to remember talk some time ago about a sort of similar system to the National Grid of electricity, but that may have been a pipedream of someone's. Sorry if I have misled you! The hydro-electricity and seed potatoes are definitely true! Porridge oats too.

No problem Elegran - I was interested because there’s quite a lot of angst in Wales about it, as reservoirs were created at the expense of people’s homes and farms. We do get plenty of rain though!

Reservoirs in Scotland are mainly (but not exclusively) in remote places high up in the mouintains. I don't doubt that piping the water south of the border could be done, given the expensive infrastructure.

Was a valley in Scotland given the same treatment as Capel
Celyn ? 35 MP’s from Wales voted against the flooding 1 MP
abstained, the valley was flooded and the people were told they could pay to have bodies dug up and buried elsewhere or
left at the bottom of the reservoir.

Liverpool apologised 40 years later

I can't answer your question, Anniebach but you will probably find out on the net.

I don't think that Scotland pipes any water to England.

We have a big reservoir, Keilder, in Northumberland that is, I understand, barely used. It was built to supply industry but the industries it was meant to serve declined soon after.

We also have the very big Derwent Reservoir which serves the North East.

I think that a Scottish supply is highly unlikely.

varian

I have never, in many years of party membership met a LibDem who would ever see themselves as to the right of the conservatives PippaZ. However there have been instances where we were on some policies to the left of the Labour Party which is in many ways conservative with a small "c". We do believe in having a mixed economy, but the ownership of companies should not be the main issue, rather what would best serve our communities.

Speaking personally, I joined the Liberals in the 1970s because we had moved to a part of the country where there were only two parties the Liberals and the Tories. The Labour Party hardly existed, although there was a time when our local Tory Councillor was so worried about being defeated by our Liberal candidate that she persuaded the postman (a very popular chap) to stand for Labour by telling him that his union would pay his costs, which they did. I am glad to say she was still beaten by the Liberal!

When the SDP was formed and we met the local members, I thought that they were just the same as us except that they had taken a bit longer to come to the same conclusion, that social democracy was preferable to the entrenched policies of the union dominated Labour Party. Because of the undemocratic FPTP system of elections, it is difficult enough for one centre left party to compete, let alone two and so merging was the best way forward. Although I have probably never at any time believed in every single party policy, I very much identified with leaders like Roy Jenkins, David Steel, Shirley Williams and Paddy Ashdown and I think in the present difficult circumstances, Ed Davey is doing a good job..

There is no need for anyone who believes in trying to build a fair society ever feeling politically homeless.

Thank you for such an in-depth answer Varian.

I think a lot of people in Scotland are fed up of talk of another referendum. We are dealing with a health crisis plus Brexit and don't need anything else piled on us. We had the once in a lifetime vote and that should be it. I feel our FM has done well in the pandemic and I also think she has made it very clear that her covid briefings are not to be highjacked by independence questions. But I am disappointed that this constance background noise of independence is still ongoing. I think the SNP will get in at the next election but that does not mean that everyone who votes for them wants independence. They have sadly not done well with the health service or education. Scotland used to be well ahead in education league tables but those days have long gone. Also there is a terrible record for drug deaths which is a situation which hasn't been dealt with properly. In Scotland I feel we do well out of our situation. If you go to university tuition fees are paid for. If you are infirm you can have carers in 4x per day for years totally free. Prior to retiral age I had free prescriptions. The car parks in my town are free as are the car parks in large hospitals in the area. Why would anyone want to change this?! My friend from England was so surprised when she visited as in every car park we went to in my area she would say 'don't tell me, you don't have to pay here'. Why would anyone what to give all this up?! We do not have enough money to cover all these benefits. And where would we have been without the vaccine organisation from Westminster. There is certainly a significant publicly silent group against independence here if discussions with my peers are anything to go by. I hope it doesn't come as several of my friends have said they would move south if it did and they wouldn't be the only ones.

Dustyhen I think you'll find OUR taxes pay for those things and a hell of a lot more beside.I do wish some people would research and find the truth not the westminster version of it.IF ...we are such a burden on the WM economy why in the name of all and any god are they so desperate to hold onto us .It doesn't make sense.this is a governmnet that wont pay for a spare room for someone who needs it why would they subsidise a whole country???

I'm fed up with talk of another referendum. I am also fed up with coronavirus and talk of how the vaccine roll-out is going. I am also fed up with the winter. That doesn't mean that I won't vote for independence or take my vaccine gratefully when it is offered, or enjoy walking through the snow.

Perhaps after independence, some people will move north, Dustyhen2010.

Dustyhen if Westminster is providing those things to Scotland, why is it not providing them to England also?

Why, oh why do people insist on telling everyone how terrible they think the SNP are at running the country as a reason for not wanting independence?

That's a serious question. I'd like to know

Maybe one of the silent majority can tell me.

It's quite simple Alegrias we have no confidence in their running the country right now after having had the chance to for 13+ years. Why on earth would we want to cut ties with our greatest support and somehow hope for the best after independence?
It would be like casting off a ship into stormy waters with a dangerously inept crew and only the hope of a new crew miraculously being found.
I'd certainly mutiny but would prefer not to board at all.

Thank you for answering Jane10

So, as I thought, you have no faith in your fellow citizens to elect a competent government.

Wanting to stay in the Union is a valid position. Thinking that this country and its citizens don't have the sense to run its own affairs, not so much.

Alegrias1

Why, oh why do people insist on telling everyone how terrible they think the SNP are at running the country as a reason for not wanting independence?

That's a serious question. I'd like to know

Maybe one of the silent majority can tell me.

I am not a hugely political animal. I have lived a long time and seen a lot. I do think health and education have not been handled well here and honestly can't see anyone being able to say they have. It does not look as if we are likely to ever get another party leading at Holyrood or any real opposition unless proportional representation occurs. The SNPs main aim is to get independence for Scotland. They would be the ones involved in trying to implement it. Sadly they can't seem to improve the areas they are able to work with so what hope would there be for any good outcome if Scotland was independent. While independence may sound like a lovely idea it is not practical. We would not have streets paved in gold. I think we need to pull together rather than apart.

United we stand divided we fall.

Thanks for answering Dustyhen10

We've already got proportional representation in the Scottish Parliament.

Labour were in charge of Scotland for the first two terms of the parliament' existence and if they got their act together they could be again.

Sorry, but something else just occurred to me. All those bad things - education, health, drug deaths - they're all the SNP's fault. All the good things - no university fees, free prescriptions, carers visiting your home, - are all because we are part of the Union.
I'll just leave that out there......

Alegrias1

Thanks for answering Dustyhen10

We've already got proportional representation in the Scottish Parliament.

Labour were in charge of Scotland for the first two terms of the parliament' existence and if they got their act together they could be again.

It is not fully proportional, the majority of seats are first past the post.
I agree re Labour. A long time since any real opposition and very hard to find anyone competant to vote for sadly, whatever political persuasion.

Alegrias1

Sorry, but something else just occurred to me. All those bad things - education, health, drug deaths - they're all the SNP's fault. All the good things - no university fees, free prescriptions, carers visiting your home, - are all because we are part of the Union.
I'll just leave that out there......

There have been some huge failings in areas where the SNP has full control and where policies have to be planned and implemented. Money which is allocated to Scotland has been spent for the good of all of us here and I am very grateful for that. However I think it is easier to spend money than make policies which work.

73 constituency seats and 56 list ones. So yes, technically the majority are first past the post but the list ones do a good job of levelling up the minority parties.

www.electoral-reform.org.uk/is-there-proportional-representation-in-scotland/

And I say this in all seriousness - its very sad that anyone thinks that there is no-one competent to vote for in Scotland. And the "allocated" money - its not a handout. But if you think there is no-one in this country who can make a stab are governing, well I can't say anything to change your mind.

The economic argument against independence is usually based on the annual GERS statement.

There are reasons to believe that this statement gives a false picture of Scotland's economic status.

Richard Murphy explains here why he thinks it's not a true picture. (10 min video)

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2020/08/29/why-is-gers-crap/

I find casting doubts on the competence of anyone to run Scotland to be quite ironic in view of the incompetents presently supposed to be running the UK...

I'm in agreement with Dustyhen2010 that we need a proper system of PR for the whole of the UK. Having been without internet access since Saturday I've only just read this thread. It seems to me that there is so much passion on here that could be directed towards campaigning for PR.

Since 1922 the Tories have only had a majority in excess of 50% in two elections. Labour never. In all other elections the combined votes of the other parties exceeded that of the Tories. I for one have been annoyed that we have been ruled by a minority government even when it was the Labour Party in power. In the last election the Tories got 43.6% of the vote and the combined Lib Dem and Labour vote was 43.7%. Yet this resulted in Tories getting 365 seats and the other 2 main parties only 214 seats. This is manifestly inequitable.

It is no wonder that many Scots want to leave the Union when there is little chance of the voices of the majority being heard.

MaizieD

I find casting doubts on the competence of anyone to run Scotland to be quite ironic in view of the incompetents presently supposed to be running the UK...

I am afraid I don't have much faith in those south of the border either!