Who gives a t*ss?

growstuff
In your haste to send yet another snippy reply you obviously missed that odd mistake was In italics, indicating I was copying words from Luccas post @18.49.
As you chose not to point it out to Lucca I can only assume the dig was personal.

GillT57

Ok. So; as many on GN are refusing to even attempt to understand what Campbell has written, due it would seem to who wrote it.....would you agree with what is said if it was written by someone less controversial politically? Justin Welby? Jonathan Sachs? David Attenborough? With that thought in mind, please read it again.

But they didn't write it. This is not written by someone we can trust.

Sigh

but are cool with 128,000 Covid dead

What a vile thing to say, as if anyone could be relaxed about Covid deaths.
A statement made by someone responsible for far more deaths of men, women, children and babies not to mention British servicemen, because of his lies.

I don't know how he sleeps at night with all those deaths on his conscience.
If he has a conscience.

growstuff

MerylStreep

Lucca
Several posters who voted for Boris are very disappointed in his odd mistake I would use stronger language ?
I will not forgive him ( and others) for the awful care homes debacle and, for not shutting our borders.

You are joking, aren't you? Johnson has made more than the odd mistake!!

Obviously I was. But I’d settle for the Boris camp agreeing to at least the odd one, but no!

I struggle with Campbell's history
However, I cannot deny that that I very much agree with him here
It's almost an inertia, an inability to recoginse that flagrant lies, the cronyism are very much becoming acceptable

grannysyb

The one thing I will never forgive Blair for is the decision to charge students tuition fees. My grandchildren will be in debt for years. Those who voted for this were all lucky enough to get their education for free. Further education colleges have been underfunded for years, we need apprentices with technical skills.

Your grandchildren, by getting a higher level of education than the majority of young people are better placed to have decent careers and presumably well paid employment. I can see no reason why they should not contribute financially towards their futures.

In any event, repayment of the loans doesn't start until they earn at least £27,000 and any amount outstanding after 30 years is cancelled.

As regards apprentices, their training would be paid for by the employers.

growstuff

As an illustration of "quod erat demonstrandum", this thread is going to take some beating.

?

GrannyGravy13

I am off out to dinner with friends (lovely Italian overlooking the beach)

If the thread is still here I will have a look in the morning.

I would say that I am surprised at some posters rooting for Alistair Campbell but in actuality I realise they will put anyone on a pedestal if they are anti our current PM.

Letting your imagination run riot aren't you?

Those who agree with Campbell's ideas as expounded in his article in the New European have denied his role in the Iraq War. Similarly those who accept that there is an element of truth in DC's comment last week have not changed their attitudes towards the man himself.

Love it when people are open to ideas and progressive thought????.

Well I give a toss and I get infuriated at the acceptance of incompetence and sleaze that is ignored on a regular basis.

MaizieD Thank you for starting this post. My OH told me about AC's article yesterday and I was intending to write about it but was too busy.

The divisions as referred to by AC are pretty apparent in the posts above. Unlike one poster on here who thinks that the divisions go back to Blair, I think that they started much earlier, with Thatcher's pronouncements that there is no such thing as society.

With regard to AC's "mortgage application fraud" it was Mandelson who neglected to declare existing mortgages and loans when applying to a building society for what turned out to be a fourth mortgage/loan.

Yet again people are posting untruths which will continue to be believed and repeated no matter how many times these are refuted.

GrannyGravy13

I am off out to dinner with friends (lovely Italian overlooking the beach)

If the thread is still here I will have a look in the morning.

I would say that I am surprised at some posters rooting for Alistair Campbell but in actuality I realise they will put anyone on a pedestal if they are anti our current PM.

Whose "rooting" for Alistair Campbell? Just one will do GrannyGravy13. Just to show you know the meaning of the words you use.

You can only conclude, from this thread, that those who voted for Boris (and probably Brexit) and still support him as a happy chappy are so narrow-minded they cannot see outside their repetitive spiel.

Is that a scientific survey PippaZ?

Thinking Campbell is yesterday's man, wandering around in the political wilderness and thank goodness after all the devastation he caused and not wanting the country to enter in an illegal war does not mean anyone voted Brexit or voted for Johnson.

That is a complete non-sequitur.

What a strange conclusion

The divisions as referred to by AC are pretty apparent in the posts above. Unlike one poster on here who thinks that the divisions go back to Blair, I think that they started much earlier, with Thatcher's pronouncements that there is no such thing as society.

I'd agree. But the point of Campbell's argument is that there is a 'new' division between those who have an interest in, and who care about the way that the country is governed (which includes the probity of those doing the governing) and those who couldn't give a monkey's.

As growstuff and others have commented, the replies admirably demonstrate the soundness of his proposition.

so narrow-minded they cannot see outside their repetitive spiel.

To be fair PippaZ, I think that describes both sides of the political discussions on GN. Both sides are deeply entrenched in their opinions and beliefs and both sides firmly believe the other side is completely wrong. But you have to have an open mind to be able to see that.

But what about Campbell's message? I would say there is a reasonably high correlation between those who "don't give a toss" and voting for Johnson.

If AC said ”Paris is the capital of France” many would deny it because it is AC who says it. As far as I can see nobody on here has looked at a single claim AC makes and explained why it is a lie.

Even a lier sometimes tells the truth.

Chewbacca

^so narrow-minded they cannot see outside their repetitive spiel.^

To be fair PippaZ, I think that describes both sides of the political discussions on GN. Both sides are deeply entrenched in their opinions and beliefs and both sides firmly believe the other side is completely wrong. But you have to have an open mind to be able to see that.

What about those who try to discuss political issues without "taking sides"?

Greta

If AC said ”Paris is the capital of France” many would deny it because it is AC who says it. As far as I can see nobody on here has looked at a single claim AC makes and explained why it is a lie.

Even a lier sometimes tells the truth.

Not fair Greta! I, for one, considered what Campbell wrote and I can see that some other people have too.

Dinahmo

grannysyb

The one thing I will never forgive Blair for is the decision to charge students tuition fees. My grandchildren will be in debt for years. Those who voted for this were all lucky enough to get their education for free. Further education colleges have been underfunded for years, we need apprentices with technical skills.

Your grandchildren, by getting a higher level of education than the majority of young people are better placed to have decent careers and presumably well paid employment. I can see no reason why they should not contribute financially towards their futures.

In any event, repayment of the loans doesn't start until they earn at least £27,000 and any amount outstanding after 30 years is cancelled.

As regards apprentices, their training would be paid for by the employers.

Not only that, but the fees the Blair government introduced were nowhere near the level of today's fees, which have been designed not to be paid off. They are, in effect, a graduate tax. Furthermore, under the Blair government, there was still an element of non-repayable grant for students from families with low incomes.

PippaZ

You can only conclude, from this thread, that those who voted for Boris (and probably Brexit) and still support him as a happy chappy are so narrow-minded they cannot see outside their repetitive spiel.

So so wrong.

I have repeatedly posted that I am not a fan of Boris Johnson (actually bored of posting this), I have repeatedly posted that if/when Boris Johnson is found guilty (in a court of law or official enquiry) he should be bound by the results and accept the consequences.

As the OP posted, in my opinion (going on conversations I have taken part in and/or overheard) there are many many folks in the U.K. that do not dissect every political argument/article. They see the vaccine roll-out as a win-win situation for the U.K. and by default this is a plus for the PM, he promised Brexit, he delivered Brexit (and again they are not forensically checking every article regarding the current situation)

The reasons for not going over every detail of the current government’s daily business (and this is only my opinion) is they are too busy getting on with their lives, they have not got the luxury of being retired as many on GN are, enabling them to trawl MSM and elsewhere for negative stories regarding the Conservative Party.

None of the above can/should be considered as not giving a toss it’s called living through a pandemic the best way they can for them and their families.

The more mud and allegations thrown at Boris Johnson the higher his polling, as soon as the media wakes up to this phenomenon the better.

Dominic Cummings, Alistair Campbell and no doubt all others who will come along with articles about the PM have a relatively narrow audience outside the Westminster Bubble

AC is jumping on the bash Boris bandwagon, I wonder what his reason is, as I very much doubt it is altruistic,

Great post Grannygravy13.

GrannyGravey13 - well said ?
Boris always comes up smelling of roses no matter how much mud is thrown on him.