Brexit, Polls have turned, not just one, but all of them, but one

Alegrias1

*Opinion*: The EU are being spiteful

Fact: The EU are treating us just like any other 3rd country, which is what we are now.

Everyone is allowed their opinion, but if its based on misconceptions or prejudices, they're going to get called out on it Yammy

Who is going to chair the debate and come to a conclusion accepted by all putting right the misconceptions, YOU? There will never be consensus on Brexit or we would not have needed the vote.
We all have misconceptions and prejudices but if we are not allowed to air them without "Clever" remarks you will find your membership falling.
Not everyone is of equal intelligence or knowledge but we should be allowed to say what we feel. Isn't that what Gransnet is for. A forum to help others not to make them feel small and idiots. You'll end up with a small group who appear to know each other just arguing with each other. It's refreshing to see others point of view.
Your fact is just your opinion some might disagree.

Some British expat in Spain are facing deportation. I wonder how many of them were fooled into voting for brexit?

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/europe-news/british-expats-spain-brexit-deportation-residency-8032656

Brexiters know that the ship is turning, and that clearly a massive proportion of those who voted for Brexit, for whatever reason and persuaded by whatever lie- be they fishermen, farmers, small business owners, big business owners, people who live in the EU or had dreams to do so- and so many more, have now seen the light. They get it now- and they can see that 'project fear' was indeed 'project reality'.

We have chosen to be a third country, and so no good whingeing (oh I hate this word) about being faced with 3rd country rules. No good blaming the EU for insisting we face to the consequences of that choice- and insist on borders and checks- to stop our future low quality goods and foods, produced cheaply by low paid workers with low protection, etc. entering their united market. This is not spite, this is pure common sense, and their 100% right. Don't blame them!

cupcake1

Gazumping? We didn’t ‘dilly dally’ in the first place and ordered and paid for the vaccines long before those in the EU. I for one am eternally grateful. As for an unfair Brexit I agree - but not from the angle you are coming from.

The EU agreed to make contracts working together, to get a good price, which was agreed. But the UK gazumped them, offering a higher price and undermine their contracts.

That is gazumping and cause big delays for the EU.

There is actual, provable truth. The fact that it is more difficulty to do business in Europe now that we have left the EU; the fact that people I know have had their lives turned into a nightmare by the Brexit vote; the fact that lies were used to convince voters to vote out. I know this latter point as “truth” because I remember the lying leaflets that popped through my letterbox in the weeks leading up to that vote. So, ideas about “my truth and your truth” are just so much woo-woo, I’m afraid.

The vote to leave the EU is the single most disastrous political decision of my lifetime. I have no interest in trying to get people on side, those days are gone I’m sorry to say. The people who believed that we would be better outside the EU because of spurious “facts” relating to Global Britain and the rest of that tosh are going to have to face up to the truth at some point.

Some people have ideas that I disagree with; Greengage doesn’t like the idea of a political union but does like the idea of a single market. I disagree with that viewpoint but its perfectly valid. However using the vaccine rollout, for instance, as a reason to be grateful for leaving the EU is based on a misunderstanding of the rules of the EU and has been explained on this very thread. But people ignore it.
Unlike you Yammy I don’t think this is because people are of different levels of “intelligence” (your word, not mine.) I think people believed what they were told, and are being told about the EU, because it’s easy to believe. That they all hate us, that they’re trying to undermine us, that we were put upon, and that’s the reason for all our troubles. Well, its not.

The country is already divided. Those who can understand the disastrous outcomes of the Brexit vote, and those who don’t. Well I won’t be shutting up, not for a long time.

Those of us ( well, most of us) who live in Northern Ireland knew it would create problems here and it's proven to be a disaster. Only one political party here were pro Brexit and they were completely taken in by Boris's false promises. If they hadn't supported him it wouldn't have happened. We've still got problems getting some foodstuffs in from GB and it's a disaster for businesses.

The Conservatives are livid that the EU are making the UK abide by the Treaty they signed up to to get Johnson to take over from Mrs May.

Fancy that!

"How can you not agree with the truth?"
demonstrates breathtaking naiviety. Remember, there's your truth, their truth and, somewhere in the middle, is the absolute truth.

Alegrias you have just demonstrated that what Chewbacca has said is true as you describe the truth for some people you know. That is their truth but they are not a majority.

Their truth may not be the truth for many other people. Will not be.

And somewhere between is absolute truth.
Somewhere in between is a route forward as long as people do not keep taking sides and fighting. That is just destructive.

I think many people found The Common Market acceptable and a positive but ever increasing political union with more involved treaties alarming.

The Single Market would be a positive way forward but will come with conditions which some may not find acceptable.

Anyway - why keep trying to convince posters of your truth when you say you will be leaving the UK and rejoining the EU?

Sloegin

Those of us ( well, most of us) who live in Northern Ireland knew it would create problems here and it's proven to be a disaster. Only one political party here were pro Brexit and they were completely taken in by Boris's false promises. If they hadn't supported him it wouldn't have happened. We've still got problems getting some foodstuffs in from GB and it's a disaster for businesses.

I think parts of Wales are quite surprised too.

Not all areas voted to leave though.

Alegrias1

There is actual, provable truth. The fact that it is more difficulty to do business in Europe now that we have left the EU; the fact that people I know have had their lives turned into a nightmare by the Brexit vote; the fact that lies were used to convince voters to vote out. I know this latter point as “truth” because I remember the lying leaflets that popped through my letterbox in the weeks leading up to that vote. So, ideas about “my truth and your truth” are just so much woo-woo, I’m afraid.

The vote to leave the EU is the single most disastrous political decision of my lifetime. I have no interest in trying to get people on side, those days are gone I’m sorry to say. The people who believed that we would be better outside the EU because of spurious “facts” relating to Global Britain and the rest of that tosh are going to have to face up to the truth at some point.

Some people have ideas that I disagree with; Greengage doesn’t like the idea of a political union but does like the idea of a single market. I disagree with that viewpoint but its perfectly valid. However using the vaccine rollout, for instance, as a reason to be grateful for leaving the EU is based on a misunderstanding of the rules of the EU and has been explained on this very thread. But people ignore it.
Unlike you Yammy I don’t think this is because people are of different levels of “intelligence” (your word, not mine.) I think people believed what they were told, and are being told about the EU, because it’s easy to believe. That they all hate us, that they’re trying to undermine us, that we were put upon, and that’s the reason for all our troubles. Well, its not.

The country is already divided. Those who can understand the disastrous outcomes of the Brexit vote, and those who don’t. Well I won’t be shutting up, not for a long time.

Whose asking you to I personally enjoy your ranting makes good entertainment. But you will stop people reading or bothering to have their say and Gransnet will be no more,you have just shown a good example of what I said and will be one who leads to its demise.

The truth is that business more difficult to do now.

The truth is that people I know have had their lives more difficult. Nobody I know has had their lives made easier.

The truth is that the Leave campaign told lies.

I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything, as I said. Just pointing out the untruths and misconceptions and hoping people will desist from repeating the misconceptions. Vain hope I expect.

I agree Yammy ??

Kali ....the ship hasn’t turned, it’s already sailed.There is no point in trying to pretend otherwise.

OK, you can all blame me when Gransnet closes down. ??

sailed to where, nobody knows?

It is just lost at sea - perhaps it will end up in Lichtentstein, or somewhere

Alegrias1

The truth is that business more difficult to do now.

The truth is that people I know have had their lives more difficult. Nobody I know has had their lives made easier.

The truth is that the Leave campaign told lies.

I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything, as I said. Just pointing out the untruths and misconceptions and hoping people will desist from repeating the misconceptions. Vain hope I expect.

The leave campaign was all lies, half truths, blatant racism and blind optimism. Take your pick, but now we have to live with it, all of us, there is no point in looking backwards, we have to work together to make the best of it.

But you will stop people reading or bothering to have their say and Gransnet will be no more,you have just shown a good example of what I said and will be one who leads to its demise.

Taken a poll of Gnet members have you, Yammy?

There are hundreds of them that never come near the News & Politics forum. I think that Gnet will survive...

The ship has sailed- but we certainly can influence where and how it will land. No-one knows what Brexit is yet. Frost and the Government are now saying this is not the Brexit they thought it would be, and blame the EU for insisting that what they negotiated and signed up to should be adhered to. And they say that this oh so unfair - whingeing indeed- but how farcical and ridiculous. Making the best of it is not going to be easy at all!

Lord Barwell, chief advisor to Mrs May :

''It's tempting to believe that - despite all the warnings - the government "underestimated the effect of the protocol", but I'm pretty sure it's not true. They knew it was a bad deal but agreed it to get Brexit done, intending to wriggle out of it later''

and now Frost is saying the EU should be more pragmatic and behave as a good friend!

The word of the day reminds me of that dog, do you remember it

sau sa ges (you could no make it up, yet again)

MaizieD

^But you will stop people reading or bothering to have their say and Gransnet will be no more,you have just shown a good example of what I said and will be one who leads to its demise.^

Taken a poll of Gnet members have you, Yammy?

There are hundreds of them that never come near the News & Politics forum. I think that Gnet will survive...

Don't need to take a poll you have just answered what I said. I wonder why hundreds never come near!!!!!!! The news and politics who wants to get put down and ranted at?
I hope it will survive but in the manner, it was meant to be.

Well I won’t be shutting up, not for a long time.

But will it make a jot of difference?

Yammy

MaizieD

But you will stop people reading or bothering to have their say and Gransnet will be no more,you have just shown a good example of what I said and will be one who leads to its demise.

Taken a poll of Gnet members have you, Yammy?

There are hundreds of them that never come near the News & Politics forum. I think that Gnet will survive...

Don't need to take a poll you have just answered what I said. I wonder why hundreds never come near!!!!!!! The news and politics who wants to get put down and ranted at?
I hope it will survive but in the manner, it was meant to be.

Well, we are reliably informed by other posters that most people aren't interested in politics, they just want to get on with their daily lives.

So I expect they don't come near because they don't really care...

I'm not altogether sure what manner Gnet was supposed to be. Was it meant to be an echo chamber? Cosy chats with everyone agreeing?

Callistemon

^Well I won’t be shutting up, not for a long time^.

But will it make a jot of difference?

It worked for Nigel Farage...

The government promised things that I voted for have have not happened immigration fishing and buying/using more our own home grown food and milk to help get away from food miles etc am so disappointed they lied and I was stupid enough believed they would keep promises

Their truth may not be the truth for many other people. Will not be.

That doesn't make it untrue.

If I had no arms and legs, the fact that other people had the full complement of limbs wouldn't make my limblessness untrue.

Some of us do try to deal in fact and facts don't alter. No amount of asserting that the earth is flat will make it any less round.

It's a scary thought to be living in a world where fact is taken to be fluid; where to talk in facts is actually to be condemned.