Would the EU ever trust us and want us back???

If we're going to get into conspiracy theories about the EU, perhaps people should be aware of this one, which deals with why the UK was manipulated out of the EU.

bakerstreetherald.com/2020/09/case-1-the-tabula-rasa/

MaizieD

^And we are told that young people are annoyed with the older generation, blaming them for Brexit.^

If this holds true, then, despite the hopes of the largely Leave voting generation, there is a fair chance that they will make their way back into the EU once we're out of the way.

I only have Gransnetters' word for that!!
It's supposition.

The other supposition is that the EU will no longer exist
Anything could happen including a new world power taking over.

All we do is speculate.

25Avalon

Lincslass

Why even ask the question, we won’t be going back. I for one never trusted the EEC, voted no, done to benefit the major players of France and Germany, those who want their eyes opened should read this excellent book.

Thanks Lincslass proof of what I have long suspected. I have ordered a Kindle copy for £3.19. Thank God for Nigel Farage.

Just reading the title and reviews of a book self-published by a committed brexiter in 2014, does not constitute "proof".

No wonder we're in this mess.

Alegrias don’t just read the title and reviews read the book. It contains information on documents released under the 30 year rule.

I watched his videos on You Tube.

He'll not be getting my £3.19, thanks.

25Avalon

Alegrias don’t just read the title and reviews read the book. It contains information on documents released under the 30 year rule.

Alegrias did well to find any reviews of the book. By 'reviews'I mean bona fide critical reviews, not Amazon type reviews. I could only find one that was vaguely of the 'serious appraisal' type. When it mentioned the author's belief that the 1973 referendum vote count was rigged the alarm bells rang for me...

Any government papers relating to the UK joining the then Common Market will relate to pre 1971 and thus, under the 30 year rule, will have been in the public domain for the last 2 decades. And well picked over by historians of the post war period. Just saying...

I don’t know MaisieD. We have been watching BBC4’s excellent programme on WW2 and Stalin. It’s been an insight.

Alegrias1

25Avalon

Lincslass

Why even ask the question, we won’t be going back. I for one never trusted the EEC, voted no, done to benefit the major players of France and Germany, those who want their eyes opened should read this excellent book.

Thanks Lincslass proof of what I have long suspected. I have ordered a Kindle copy for £3.19. Thank God for Nigel Farage.

Just reading the title and reviews of a book self-published by a committed brexiter in 2014, does not constitute "proof".

No wonder we're in this mess.

All research taken from Government papers, or won’t you believe them either. We are in this mess because of Heath, and Major. Full stop.

25Avalon

I don’t know MaisieD. We have been watching BBC4’s excellent programme on WW2 and Stalin. It’s been an insight.

I'm curious. I don't watch TV, so have no idea what this programme is disclosing. What insights is it giving you?

And, if we're talking about the Soviet Union, I'm sure that the European Community was in some part regarded as a bastion against communist encroachment in Europe...

All research taken from Government papers, or won’t you believe them either. We are in this mess because of Heath, and Major. Full stop.

You are a ware that there can be a number of different interpretations of primary sources? And there is such a thing as confirmation bias?

I don't actually recall the UK being in a mess caused by EU membership in the previous 4 decades. Or any great concerns about said membership (apart from those lying EU scare stories put about by the Telegraph's Brussels correspondent, B Johnson).

But we're most certainly in a mess now, post Brexit.

Why even ask the question, we won’t be going back. [Lincslass Tue 27-Jul-21 08:10:56]

No, I don't think they would have us. However, we may join EFTA and we will certainly need to trade with them. Being an untrusted nation is not going to be great whichever country we are trying to trade with.

Once the UK can behave with more humility, and the rest of the world can see us as less of a beacon and super power, the better the country might be for it. [Ellianne Mon 26-Jul-21 16:29:06]

I doubt that any countries see us that way Ellianne. We are such a long way from having the influence of a Super Power. As others have said, you would need to be a part of a block to have anything like that authority.

Why do people over-egg this so much? I love my children dearly, they are wonderful people. They would not thank me for paying them such extreme compliments that they were patently untrue. I imagine they would suspect my motives or my sanity. I do both when we hear people telling us what we must do and say to fulfil their version of "patriotic". To some people, their basically nationalistic views are almost like worship. These are often the same people who worshipped Brexit, who worship Boris. Please, for the sake of the country, go and find a nice friendly cult.

Why do people over-egg this so much?

To be fair, I don't think that Ellianne was trying to overegg it. This is the message we have lived with all our lives; that Britain, though diminished by loss of Empire, was still highly regarded and influential in the International community. I think that that is what has driven so many people to think that leaving the EU was fine, because Britain is somehow exceptional.

It's becoming very clear that Britain is not exceptional (well, not in the way that they think it is...)

Will the penny finally drop?

Apologies to Ellianne. I didn't think she was either. But it is the attitude some take and I could see that Ellianne thought it would be a good thing if people updated themselves and we didn't keep hearing it. I was trying to add to that thought.

Thank you Maizie.

Just discovered that David Barnby's alleged discovery of a secret document in 2002 was promoted by UK Column and Brian Gerrish, a well-known conspiracy theorist and plugger of fake news. It's hardly likely to be unbiassed or even that truthful.

The allegation was that Edward Heath knew that the UK would lose its sovereignty by 2000 - but it didn't and hadn't lost it by 2016.

Thanks for comments, still do not like EU, it’s a matter of do as we say, not as we do
www.marketwatch.com/story/how-france-gets-away-with-breaking-eu-rules-on-its-budget-deficit-every-year-2019-10-25

Nobody need fret about the EU, as China and the US will be running the world in the future ( and possibly Starbucks.)

This could be very true. Chinese already making headway in UK and Africa. Just heard they’ve bought McVities in Glasgow, and of course are moving the factory.

McVities factory in Glasgow is owned by Pladis, who are Turkish and have owned it since 2014. They decided to close the factory in 2022 because of excess capacity. There are actions underway right now to try to avert the closure.

But let's not let the facts get in the way of a completely made up story.

Lincslass

This could be very true. Chinese already making headway in UK and Africa. Just heard they’ve bought McVities in Glasgow, and of course are moving the factory.

But let's not let the facts get in the way of a completely made up story
Or tell half a story

They may be closing the Scottish factory but are investing in their plants in England.

Investment in production lines is going elsewhere - the firm has a portfolio of five other UK factories - Carlisle, Leicestershire, Sheffield, Manchester and Harlesden, employing 4200 people.

And yes, the owners are Turkish.

Lincslass

This could be very true. Chinese already making headway in UK and Africa. Just heard they’ve bought McVities in Glasgow, and of course are moving the factory.

And are investing in Australasia.

MaisieD it was “World War 2 Behind Closed Doors”. The last in the series last Sunday. The insight is what went on behind those closed doors particularly with Stalin and what happened to Poland who we fought a war to free but which didn’t end up free for another 40 odd years swapping one dictator for another. Really interesting programme - one of the few worth watching.

Interesting discussion- thanks all.

How about getting back to the OP and the concept of 'trust'.

Whether we will ever want to return, or perhaps re-negotiate some kind of Norway Deal- or not at all- we will need trade and other agreements, be it on import/exports, security, medicines, isotopes, research, and so much more. And the issue of 'trust' will very much be aprt of that. Anyone who is prepared to make any deal with us, will want to consider if our PM and our Government's word can be trusted.

Is there anyone here, even the hardest of anti EU/Brexiters, who would be prepared to deny that to make agreements and Treaties of any kind, trust is a very important thing.

Kali2

Interesting discussion- thanks all.

How about getting back to the OP and the concept of 'trust'.

Whether we will ever want to return, or perhaps re-negotiate some kind of Norway Deal- or not at all- we will need trade and other agreements, be it on import/exports, security, medicines, isotopes, research, and so much more. And the issue of 'trust' will very much be aprt of that. Anyone who is prepared to make any deal with us, will want to consider if our PM and our Government's word can be trusted.

Is there anyone here, even the hardest of anti EU/Brexiters, who would be prepared to deny that to make agreements and Treaties of any kind, trust is a very important thing.

Unfortunately money speaks more and is paid more attention to than trust.

I am not sure- I am not so cynical as you. I think money without trust just is not enough, truly.

In the meantime, this made me laugh (funny ah ah ... as it is not funny at all) but here goes

"OF COURSE, IT HAS GOT TO BE RE-NEGOTIATED, AS WHEN WE SIGNED IT, THE ROOM WAS ALL DARK AND DINGY AND WE HAD FORGOTTEN OUR READING GLASSES, SO THE WORDS IN THE DOCUMENT WERE ALL VERY BLURRY.
AND WE WERE IN A BIT OF A HURRY COS FROSTY NEEDED TO GO TO THE BATHROOM.
AND AS WE'RE BRITISH AND IMPORTANT TO THE WORLD WE THINK IT ALL NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT AGAIN"