So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

Yes growstuff you could be right. New Zealand are having problems obtaining all the vaccines they need. They only ordered Pfizer and hoped to complete their tiny population’s vaccinations by September, but now it appears it will be December before it is complete.
I don’t think Britain ordered too few vaccines, but they may have ordered too few of particular vaccines, the Pfizer or Moderna ones. They put in enormous orders, far more than our need, for lots of different vaccines, but are now relying mainly on Pfizer or Moderna. They said spare vaccines would be donated or sold at cost (Astra Zeneca) to third world countries, and I believe some vaccines, the AZ ones, have already been given to other countries, but of course much more needs to be done in that department.

KateF. “ we all were required to have visas, ”. Really ? Visas for Europe ? Or do you mean work permits ?

I worked in Italy early 70’s. For four years. No visa. Just passport plus a couple of local permits done at the
Police station

growstuff

Yammy

JaneJudge

My kids don't think they are entitled what a really nasty thing to post.

One of my sons took two languages at school and did exchange trips, I don't think it would be as useful as a year abroad with Erasmus , though obviously not all youngsters go to university anyway.

Do you mean Erasmus the theologian or Erasmus the very cunning and canny South African Rugby coach? The outcome would be very different depending on which.

Is that supposed to be a joke?

No, it certainly was not. The outcomes would be very different and you haven't said which one you mean.

Just posting this again...

Alegrias1

Just posting this again...

Not sure of the relevance in this context?

*But when I did it, in the nineties, I hopped on a cross channel ferry, drove to my destination, started work on the Monday. No Visa, no immigration requirements, just moving house. It was easy. It was becoming normal, it was like moving from one UK town to another*

That was the problem - it was too easy for people from all over the EU to come here, take our jobs and drive down wages.
All too easy. And they were doing it in their millions.

Several hundred million doses ordered.

Posted in response to the post that suggested the government didn't order enough vaccines Mawbe. The conversation moved on while I was typing!

Kandinsky

**But when I did it, in the nineties, I hopped on a cross channel ferry, drove to my destination, started work on the Monday. No Visa, no immigration requirements, just moving house. It was easy. It was becoming normal, it was like moving from one UK town to another**

That was the problem - it was too easy for people from all over the EU to come here, take our jobs and drive down wages.
All too easy. And they were doing it in their millions.

Well the Brexiters have got their way. We're back in the Sixties!!

Coming over here, taking our jobs...they probably married our women as well

Kandinsky

**But when I did it, in the nineties, I hopped on a cross channel ferry, drove to my destination, started work on the Monday. No Visa, no immigration requirements, just moving house. It was easy. It was becoming normal, it was like moving from one UK town to another**

That was the problem - it was too easy for people from all over the EU to come here, take our jobs and drive down wages.
All too easy. And they were doing it in their millions.

Gosh yes, all those Portugese nurses, German dentists, people like my friend a Theatre Manager (medical) from Romania. Bloody cheek of them.

Oh god… not the “come here and take our jobs” thing.
Really ?

It seems Iand many like me were wrong because we took our lovely British talents overseas, but the EU citizens coming here were just intent on taking low wage jobs and putting the Brits out of work.

Its like a parallel universe, really.

Alegrias1

Several hundred million doses ordered.

Posted in response to the post that suggested the government didn't order enough vaccines Mawbe. The conversation moved on while I was typing!

... and not yet delivered! Please do try to keep up on that one!

The next batch of Pfizer vaccines is due in late September. They're the ones needed to vaccinate younger people.

Please do try not to be sarcastic growstuff, its not becoming.

Alternatively, try to be accurate. (I guess that's sarcastic. Oh well)

"didn't order enough" isn't the same as "hasn't arrived yet"

Yammy, Erasmus the academic exchange program our students are no longer allowed to access the scheme now we have left the EU.

The Erasmus programme was established in 1987 as an exchange programme for higher education students. ... Today, Erasmus+ offers a wide range of opportunities in higher education, vocational education and training, school education, adult education, youth and sport. These are open to learners, educators and youth workers

My dentist is Hungarian

Alegrias1

Please do try not to be sarcastic growstuff, its not becoming.

Alternatively, try to be accurate. (I guess that's sarcastic. Oh well)

"didn't order enough" isn't the same as "hasn't arrived yet"

I am being accurate.

The UK government didn't originally order enough mRNA doses, which is why there's been a slowdown in younger people in England being offered vaccinations. It initially ordered 48 million Pfizer and Moderna doses, which have now all been used or allocated for second doses. 16 and 17 year olds can't book appointments in England yet and there is no commitment to giving them a second dose.

Those are the facts, however much you deny it.

It’s all very well for you pouring scorn on my comments, but I very much doubt you live the life of an unskilled labourer in Doncaster.
Jobs in the north ( & south ! ) were taken by EU workers, 1000’s of them, & many were paid very low wages - exploitation in my opinion.
You see brexit through your own privileged position, and will continue to you dying day thinking all leave voters are uneducated scum.
I actually feel sorry for you.

Kandinsky

It’s all very well for you pouring scorn on my comments, but I very much doubt you live the life of an unskilled labourer in Doncaster.
Jobs in the north ( & south ! ) were taken by EU workers, 1000’s of them, & many were paid very low wages - exploitation in my opinion.
You see brexit through your own privileged position, and will continue to you dying day thinking all leave voters are uneducated scum.
I actually feel sorry for you.

Why wasn't minimum wage being enforced?

Yes, and it was named after Erasmus the theologian and great thinker that's why I was asking Erasmus the South African practices non-apartheid policies, therefore, excluding no one whatever their education level.

Oh god… not the “come here and take our jobs” thing

I’m sure you’d gladly give them your job, or your partners job, or your children’s job.

Course you would.

growstuff I don't think anybody here will think that I approve of anything this government does. But I think its a bit much to constantly be criticising them for not buying enough of the "right" vaccine. They ordered shedloads of every kind of vaccine and time has shown that, e.g. we shouldn't be using the AZ one with younger people. So the balance isn't perfect, but you make the best decision you can with the information available to you at the time.

Most of what the government have done in this pandemic has been a disaster, but this is not one of those things.

Those are the facts, however much you try to deny it.

Kandinsky

*Oh god… not the “come here and take our jobs” thing*

I’m sure you’d gladly give them your job, or your partners job, or your children’s job.

Course you would.

I worked in a company where about 20 or so Europeans whose first language wasn't English formed a call centre that meant the company stayed in Scotland instead of moving to the EU. About 100 or so other (Scottish) people were employed at that site, including unskilled people who worked on the manufacturing line.

Its moved to the EU now.

My parents live in an area where hundreds of EU migrants worked in the fish processing industry, keeping those industries alive and providing employment for the fishermen and supporting trades that made the area flourish. Many factories closing down now.

You really have no idea Kandinsky

JaneJudge

My dentist is Hungarian

and my chiropractor is Dutch, lovely lad. Kandinsky, your comment is rather vitriolic and unfair; just what on earth has JaneJudge's Hungarian dentist, or my Romanian friend working as a theatre manager got to do with the desperate conditions of an unemployed labourer in Doncaster? Other than the labourer, like yourself perhaps, believes that the fault lies with the Hungarian dentist 'taking his job' rather than with the poor life chances handed down by generations of poor UK government? The working people of other countries must not be blamed for the exploitation of others. Punch up, not down.

Some of my daughter's carers are European too. I value them just as much as I do my dentist! I'd like to see all these British care workers lining up for work. We find it really difficult to fill the roles as it is. It is a fallacy that these people are taking British people's jobs.

Kadinsky they do not come here and take our jobs, they come here and take the jobs we do not have people able to fill like bar staff, farm workers, doctors, nurses.

In a growing economy the number of jobs available is constantly growing and people are needed to fill them. In 1964, when I started work there were roughly 25 million people in the work force. In 2018 it was around 35 million. No need for anyone to give their job up for other people to fill.