AUKUS

No fireworks

Well, that's a relief halfpint!!
?

Nuclear Weapons are NOT the answer to anything, might just as soon blow us all up now, rather than next year.

Think it will not make the world a safer place. Don't want to toady up to the US and we should be very careful to maintain a good relationship with our close neighbours.

helgawills

Nuclear Weapons are NOT the answer to anything, might just as soon blow us all up now, rather than next year.

Some confusion here - a nuclear submarine is not a weapon, it is nuclear powered.

Like a nuclear power station producing power.
Australia doesn't have nuclear power stations either.

Haven’t had time to read all the comments but I understood this deal to be providing nuclear powered subs which will be armed with conventional weapons, not nuclear warheads.

I’m unhappy about not keeping France informed, particularly as US has hardly shown itself to be a reliable ally, even while the AUKUS treaty was being set up.

Nuclear Power Stations are not the answer, either, this planet is too small to deal with the toxic waste, which will just keep building up. Best way to deal with China is to stop buying their goods, that includes their investments in Nuclear Power Stations. We got to cut consumption as it is. And trade with our neighbours, not import stuff from half a world away.

We're not proliferating nuclear weapons, the subs are nuclear powered and will carry non nuclear weapons.

The French are going to be peeved for missing out on all the millions/ billions it needs now Britain are not propping up their economy by not being in the EU. They would not be worried a jot if they had done exactly the same to Britain or America. It seems to be the French way or no way, look at Barnier not so keen now to be involved in the EU.

I have never bothered to learn the American language and really do not wish to do so. They are Americans after all.

leeds22

Haven’t had time to read all the comments but I understood this deal to be providing nuclear powered subs which will be armed with conventional weapons, not nuclear warheads.

I’m unhappy about not keeping France informed, particularly as US has hardly shown itself to be a reliable ally, even while the AUKUS treaty was being set up.

The difficulty is that the agreement between Australia and France has been struggling for some time. During that time, China has been strengthening its coercive powers. As well as Beijing reversing back to totalitarian mode, it has been stirring up territorial disputes in the South China Sea claiming parts of the sea as its own by building islands. We have also seen the suppression of expression and free assembly in Singapore.

During this time, Trump's abusive attitude to previous allies encouraged the Australian government to look elsewhere. It showed interest in Asian powers such as the other Quad members India and Japan, and, as we know, with France.

The change came with Biden entering the White House. I can imagine there was a sigh of relief in Canberra. Both Biden and Johnson have been wary of the rise of China's powers. This triumvirate can also offer technological cooperation leading to nuclear-powered submarines. This technology is so far ahead of the French offering that the Australians had little choice but to back out of the original deal.

There are many ways in which these three countries can sell a growing security partnership to their countries. However, if they are to build on this the partnership will be based on trust. My worry would be that the weakest link in that trust will be our current Prime Minister.

I have had a bad cold recently and haven't been able to sleep, so l switched on the World service. Tucked away at about 3.00 am l heard the real reason why the Australians switched to the US and Britain for the subs. They were promised for completion in 2024,then the French said they couldn't complete until 2035,they doubled the cost and on top of that the firm involved was hacked and all their secrets stolen. The Australians pulled the plug shortly afterwards. One benefit to having a sleepless night !

I'm really amazed how many of my fellow GNers are experts in international relations, foreign policy and defence strategy. And how I've missed the fact that other countries are all out to get us and how we're a towering presence in the world, that everyone else is jealous of.

Makes me feel I've wasted my life.

Perhaps it’s sour grapes on behalf of the French as neither France or EU are part of the Five Eyes (FVEY) intelligence alliance.

USA, Canada, U.K., Australia and New Zealand are joined in security, intelligence and sharing since its inception in August 1941.

Makes sense to keep something as sensitive as a nuclear powered submarine contract in house.

Alegrias1

I'm really amazed how many of my fellow GNers are experts in international relations, foreign policy and defence strategy. And how I've missed the fact that other countries are all out to get us and how we're a towering presence in the world, that everyone else is jealous of.

Makes me feel I've wasted my life.

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GrannyGravy13

Perhaps it’s sour grapes on behalf of the French as neither France or EU are part of the Five Eyes (FVEY) intelligence alliance.

USA, Canada, U.K., Australia and New Zealand are joined in security, intelligence and sharing since its inception in August 1941.

Makes sense to keep something as sensitive as a nuclear powered submarine contract in house.

I looked up Five Eyes as I'd not heard of it before.

Thought I was in an episode of The Man from UNCLE.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

Maybe grandsnetters should run the world, we'd do a much better job !

Iwtwab12bow

Maybe grandsnetters should run the world, we'd do a much better job !

No, I don't think so.

Alegrias1

I'm really amazed how many of my fellow GNers are experts in international relations, foreign policy and defence strategy. And how I've missed the fact that other countries are all out to get us and how we're a towering presence in the world, that everyone else is jealous of.

Makes me feel I've wasted my life.

I feel fairly sure that others on this forum will have seen the growing effect of China.

I also take an interest in Australian politics and have enjoyable discussions with my son about what is going on in his part of the world.

Equally, I watched Trump for fear of what he would do and how it would change things for my brother and nieces with his withdrawal of the US from the what is going on elsewhere.

Like the amazingly named Iwtwab12bow I love the in-depth Radio 4 programmes.

No one said we are a towering presence in the world did they? I must have missed that. I shouldn't worry about it. We all have different areas of interest.

I hate the thought of more nuclear subs couldn't care less what an alliance of those proliferating them is called

We will never know the full facts, only what they realise for publication.
This is Australia, USA and GB defence /Government eyes only. Not 5 eyes or NATO (France only re - joined full NATO in 2009)
France basically blew it on this contract and now with The Presidential election due soon, there is a lot of saber swinging from the front runners.

PippaZ

When I wrote that post I hesitated before posting it because I thought that people might misinterpret what I said. Just to be clear...

We've got a cohort of people on here who think that the French and all the other EU countries hate us, and that we single handedly kept the EU afloat. That the way to deal with China is to get a bigger boat. Nuclear powered, if possible. That reneging on international deals is a perfectly acceptable way of working with our allies, especially if we don't actually communicate our intentions to anybody before hand.

I've lived in France, I've lived in Australia. Here's a secret - nobody hates us and the Aussies have always had an irrational fear of the yellow peril.

I worry that people who think international relations can be conducted the same was as playground tiffs not only have the vote, they appear to be in government.

PippaZ Sun 19-Sep-21 13:08:05
Good informative post, PippaZ

And interesting information too, Iwtwab12bow

I've lived in France, I've lived in Australia. Here's a secret - nobody hates us and the Aussies have always had an irrational fear of the yellow peril.

How long ago?

an irrational fear of the yellow peril.
And that is just a silly statement

I had a post deleted and was reprimanded for using the phrase y***ow peril a couple of months ago, obviously it’s now an OK and acceptable description of China?

Callistemon

^I've lived in France, I've lived in Australia. Here's a secret - nobody hates us and the Aussies have always had an irrational fear of the yellow peril.^

How long ago?

an irrational fear of the yellow peril.
And that is just a silly statement

news.cgtn.com/news/2020-10-16/Australia-s-march-to-a-new-yellow-peril--UCZtKwwSe4/index.html