Brexit is dead, it is no more, it has ceased to be - because it has happened. We have withdrawn from the European Union

I got an ERROR 504 message hence the double post, sorry!

GillT57

I have to hope that the majority of Tory voters in the previous election voted 'To get Brexit done' because frankly any other reason is questionable. Does anyone vote to cut social services, slash funding for the poorest, less able in society, vote to cut overseas aid, sell off the NHS, give all public servants a pay cut, etc., etc.? Let alone vote for a man with the morals and standards of behaviour that are beyond most people's understanding.

At least Boris doesn’t turn up drunk to a venue. On a flight to Gibraltar this Labour MP Charlotte Nichols had to be taken from the plane in a wheelchair yesterday, she was so intoxicated.

A Labour MP so drunk whilst representing the UK was taken off the plane in a wheelchair is a non story?

Any comments?

You know that the Times and several other serious press outlets aren't publicising her name and certainly not publishing her picture? Probably because she is considering a legal case regarding what was said about her?

New lows UG.

Shall we have a chat about people turning up late for photo ops in Rome, who might possibly have been the worse for wear?

09:45Urmstongran

I thought it was the delightful Angela Rayner on first view ?

Alegrias1

You know that the Times and several other serious press outlets aren't publicising her name and certainly not publishing her picture? Probably because she is considering a legal case regarding what was said about her?

New lows UG.

Shall we have a chat about people turning up late for photo ops in Rome, who might possibly have been the worse for wear?

How about just sticking to the OP?

I know some posters on GN are addicted to smeary dead cats, but maybe it would be nice to have a grown up discussion sometimes.

PS. You missed the words "allegedly", "apparently", "have been accused" and "were reported" UG.

I favour electoral reform but I am cautious. If we had had proportional representation a few years ago we might have seen a significant Farage party in the Commons. I think Brexit was a serious mistake but the responsibility lies with the Commons. They should never have approved a referendum. It was an avoidance of their duty to act in the interests of constituents. We send them there to do that job, not to pass the hot potato back to us.

Didn't realise that GN was such a spiteful party-political recruitment centre.......

Unfortunately, we already have a significant UKIP presence in the Commons, hiding behind a different rosette .

I think Brexit was a mistake and seriously misrepresented by the current PM, the whole 2019 election presented a pack of lies by the Tory party & should be recast. I wouldn't vote for any Tory & can't wait to vote in a govt who will restore our public services and make a better relationship with the EU. Boris keeps casting the EU in an unsatisfactory light to get those who voted for Brexit to support him, since he's (rightly) loosing support in many ways

Bit more to it than that, don't you think?
Why not think in terms of an alliance between moderate groups so that a coalition runs the country in the interests of everyone avoiding narrow issues and even narrower interest groups.
How about compassonline.org.uk ?

suzikyoo

Didn't realise that GN was such a spiteful party-political recruitment centre.......

I so agree with you suzikyoo. I am so disappointed that this group is so full of embittered remainers!

M0nica You say that If a change of leader can make such a transformation so quickly, who is to say that another change of leader won't mean a complete turn round again?

The Tories have had a landslide majority. They have had an almost silent opposition during the first years of the pandemic. So why are they now in crisis? They have changed the leader. With that leader, they have also changed their political stance. I think it is blinkered to suggest it would be an exception if it happened in another party. Hopefully, we can have something rather better than the Tories journey from cringeworthy to endangering the country with Johnson's government of corruption.

You also say I fully understand why staunch Labour Party stalwarts want to think ... . It was lemongrove who suggested this and I would hardly see her as a staunch Labour Party stalwart.

Urmstongran

GillT57

I have to hope that the majority of Tory voters in the previous election voted 'To get Brexit done' because frankly any other reason is questionable. Does anyone vote to cut social services, slash funding for the poorest, less able in society, vote to cut overseas aid, sell off the NHS, give all public servants a pay cut, etc., etc.? Let alone vote for a man with the morals and standards of behaviour that are beyond most people's understanding.

At least Boris doesn’t turn up drunk to a venue. On a flight to Gibraltar this Labour MP Charlotte Nichols had to be taken from the plane in a wheelchair yesterday, she was so intoxicated.

A Labour MP so drunk whilst representing the UK was taken off the plane in a wheelchair is a non story?

Any comments?

Those taking part have said this is a lie. Where is your proof for such libel?

You do appear to be scrapping the bottom of the barrel - I wonder why? Just to take us off topic again?

Grantanow

I favour electoral reform but I am cautious. If we had had proportional representation a few years ago we might have seen a significant Farage party in the Commons. I think Brexit was a serious mistake but the responsibility lies with the Commons. They should never have approved a referendum. It was an avoidance of their duty to act in the interests of constituents. We send them there to do that job, not to pass the hot potato back to us.

I favour electoral reform too. But we currently have only around the 40% of the population in favour of it. That is why I do not think you can lead an election with it.

Having got into Parliament, you can set up Citizens Juries. People would then have more confidence and understanding of the system. You could do much in a parliament to spread knowledge. You could then lead an election with it. My view is we cannot push forward with this in the next election but could in the following one.

This is an interesting article. The fishing people now know that not only was Brexit was not what they were sold, more importantly they are beginning to believe they were lied to*.

Some are saying - as are some other leave voters - that they wish they had not voted to leave. The reason they give for changing their minds is the extra costs. They wish the PM had mentioned this. I have to admit I don't understand why a fisherman would expect Johnson to know more about his business than he does.

However, this man is courageous. He has stood up and said he got it wrong. What we need is for people to understand and admit - if only to themselves - that this was the case. Moving on and making the best, even a success out of the lie, will need that.

*https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/01/i-wish-id-voted-to-stay-in-brixham-fishers-on-the-cost-of-brexit

I am with growstuff fantastic quote

Urmstongran

GillT57

I have to hope that the majority of Tory voters in the previous election voted 'To get Brexit done' because frankly any other reason is questionable. Does anyone vote to cut social services, slash funding for the poorest, less able in society, vote to cut overseas aid, sell off the NHS, give all public servants a pay cut, etc., etc.? Let alone vote for a man with the morals and standards of behaviour that are beyond most people's understanding.

At least Boris doesn’t turn up drunk to a venue. On a flight to Gibraltar this Labour MP Charlotte Nichols had to be taken from the plane in a wheelchair yesterday, she was so intoxicated.

A Labour MP so drunk whilst representing the UK was taken off the plane in a wheelchair is a non story?

Any comments?

Of course I have comments! I haven't read about this, but if it is true, it is disgusting, she should be ashamed of herself, and I hope that her constituents and the party deal with her in the appropriate manner. Now, back to the success that is Brexit.......

Please, please tell us about this success. We have been asking you and others for months- but you have never ever replied. Please give us a list of the good things Brexit has done for the people of the UK so far. Please. We have been waiting so so long.

I know nothing about this Labour MP who got drunk on flight. Not particularly pleasant, and a bit stupid, for sure. But what harm has she done to her Constituents by being drunk? What huge sums of money has she earned aside her job as MP in doing so? Was she in the Carribean for months pretending to serve the people who elected her. Was she working hard to help billionaires defraud the UK of tax which should be paid to help with the NHS, social services, the environment, industry, etc? I don't think so- so how is it comparable ???

Disagree completely with the idea that elections are not won on one item in the manifesto - elections are products of time and space and in certain societal conditions they might be won because of broad brush manifesto pledges whereas in others there might be one burning issue and that's the trigger - in the case of the last one it was definitely all about Brexit but very deceitfully crafted to suggest that the winner would be our own wonderful NHS when at the same time the coaches were carrying the banner promising 35M weekly for that institution, talks were already going ahead about continuing the asset stripping that had been in force for the few years previous.
So to those who deny that Brexit was the single issue, look at the record - return to the footage, return to the promise for the NHS and you will see that other things like taxes, education promises, and social care promises (were there any?) had no impact on the way people voted - it was purely the rhetoric about jobs for Brits, power for British courts and money for the NHS - that's it, plain and simple. In a time of relatively political peace, elections are different animals.

So - our fisherman - he isn't seeing success. His answer to his problem is to make things as difficult for the French as he believes they are making it for us. He tells us there were no problems before Brexit. You can see his logic.

We do not currently carry out customs checks on goods from the EU. What does he think of that; is he aware of it? Why does he think our government are not doing that? If stopping imports from the EU is good, the government would surely be on it to back up their rhetoric. They are doing all they can to let them through. Our fisherman and many other leave voters think the massive reduction in imports from the EU caused by rising tariffs would be a good thing. But is it?

We were so unprepared. Johnson will not tell that fisherman that we are so desperate for those imports of food it cannot apply tariffs on them. We are allowing imports without tariff or check because the food shortages we are already experiencing would become massively worse if we didn't. If we could organise tariffs - and we can't while we are in a position where we don't have the staff, the facilities or the systems to manage imports - it wouldn't just be higher prices; there would be real shortages.

The government knows we cannot make it difficult for the EU to export goods to us. We are desperate for those goods, especially food and medicines and many other essentials.

If a tariff could be applied, we, the people, would be the ones who paid increased prices, not the EU. We can't get these things from anywhere else - no one organised that either. The already rising costs of imports from the EU are currently adding to our inflation. A tariff such as our fisherman suggests would hit the pockets of those on the lowest income most. With such tariffs, starvation would be in the offing for the very poorest.

The ex leave voter seems to have misunderstood that the economic power lies not with us but with the EU. We have the "power" to choose to starve. But honestly - is that what we expected?

Kali2 I just googled the 'benefits of brexit' and it's basically empty. All articles say it was and continues to be very damaging, to our economy, to our security, and to the majority of citizens individually.
I too am waiting to hear from the Brexiteers of any actual real, advantages.

If you remember, we kept asking the Brexiteers to come up with what could be any possible advantage of Brexit between the referendum and the actual time of leaving, and they never managed that either.

nanna8, you could bear in mind that Nigel Farage said before the referendum that if the result was something like 48% leave and 52% Remain, that he would regard that as inconclusive and press for a rerun. You don't seem to think that those of us (a majority in Scotland and Northern Ireland by the way) who voted Remain have any right to try to make the disaster better in any way we can.

From which Tory rag did you get that misinformation Urmsongran? The politician in question became unwell during the flight, due to her medication, and required wheelchair assistance. I read that legal action against the slander is being considered.

sundowngirl

suzikyoo

Didn't realise that GN was such a spiteful party-political recruitment centre.......

I so agree with you suzikyoo. I am so disappointed that this group is so full of embittered remainers!

Oh dear!

Maremia

From which Tory rag did you get that misinformation Urmsongran? The politician in question became unwell during the flight, due to her medication, and required wheelchair assistance. I read that legal action against the slander is being considered.

If legal action is being considered, maybe GN should intervene.