Stand off drowning migrants and report – or face prosecution, sailors warned

Yes, I know. I was really asking those who say that refugees should stay in the first safe country they come to - if that were followed how many can the likes of Turkey be expected to take, and where will our share come from, as we have no borders?

Yes, I realise that you know - perhaps not everyone does.
Over 10% of Jordan's population consists of Syrian refugees.

Most people forget what is happening in Syria.

Calistemon

^Why has the Telegraph started calling them smugglers?^

Perhaps because that is the term used by the NCA to describe organised crime groups involved in the smuggling of people from France to the UK in small boats.

Oh OK. Thank you.

I still don't understand how its smuggling though. We see them leave and we see them arrive.

Michael Morpurgo on Radio 4 this morning on the experience if a child asylum seeker.

Profoundly moving.

Alegrias1

Calistemon

Why has the Telegraph started calling them smugglers?

Perhaps because that is the term used by the NCA to describe organised crime groups involved in the smuggling of people from France to the UK in small boats.

Oh OK. Thank you.

I still don't understand how its smuggling though. We see them leave and we see them arrive.

The power of language

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1

I would like to know why people think targeting the gangs will solve the problem?

People want to come here and the traffickers are filling a need. Of course we all want to stop them but however many we arrest, the desire to come here will still exist. So I keep thinking it's like back street abortions in the sixties, or Prohibition in America in the thirties. The basic need, the market if you like, is still there. Unless we address it at source, somebody somewhere is going to fulfil the need.

Which is why I suggested upthread that maybe the British Embassy in France could facilitate a travel waiver and start the process of these desperate asylum seekers negating the need for them to risk their lives crossing the channel in flimsy vessels.

Totally cutting out the cash cow of the criminals.

I don't know whether it work, but thank you for a constructive idea.

Ditto to what growstuff said.

Agree

It does seem obvious that the process of dealing with asylum applications should start in France, (at ports rather than the British Embassy in Paris, though..) But apparently, applications for asylum have to be made in the country that is being applied to. So that would entail the area in France where British staff process applications being designated British territory.

Can you imagine France, in the current dire state of Franco-British relationships, agreeing to that?

(P.S. I'm going by what an immigration expert has said on twitter. It could be wrong. Willing to be corrected if anyone knows better)

Whitewavemark2

Alegrias1

Calistemon

Why has the Telegraph started calling them smugglers?

Perhaps because that is the term used by the NCA to describe organised crime groups involved in the smuggling of people from France to the UK in small boats.

Oh OK. Thank you.

I still don't understand how its smuggling though. We see them leave and we see them arrive.

The power of language

I think people traffickers is even worse.
It's sickening

If its a worse word we should use it.

They are moving people over international borders for gain. Surely that's trafficking? Maybe that's not the right word either.

I'm sure most of us could think of words we'd like to call them.

Smuggling seems to be the standard, accepted term.
Yes, when we think of smuggling we think of covert operations, but the OCGs are covert as the authorities don't seem able to find or stop them.

www.unodc.org/toc/en/crimes/migrant-smuggling.html

MaizieD

It does seem obvious that the process of dealing with asylum applications should start in France, (at ports rather than the British Embassy in Paris, though..) But apparently, applications for asylum have to be made in the country that is being applied to. So that would entail the area in France where British staff process applications being designated British territory.

Can you imagine France, in the current dire state of Franco-British relationships, agreeing to that?

(P.S. I'm going by what an immigration expert has said on twitter. It could be wrong. Willing to be corrected if anyone knows better)

That is why I suggested The British Embassy as it is classed as British soil

It would negate the need for a designated British Area in Calais and the complication which could arise.

MaizieD

It does seem obvious that the process of dealing with asylum applications should start in France, (at ports rather than the British Embassy in Paris, though..) But apparently, applications for asylum have to be made in the country that is being applied to. So that would entail the area in France where British staff process applications being designated British territory.

Can you imagine France, in the current dire state of Franco-British relationships, agreeing to that?

(P.S. I'm going by what an immigration expert has said on twitter. It could be wrong. Willing to be corrected if anyone knows better)

No that is correct?.

Can you imagine all those asylum seekers setting up temporary camps in the middle of Paris to register claims and wait for a decision, GG13

Of course it would be a lot easier just to give them safe passage and deal with the whole process quickly and efficiently once they arrive.

Not going to happen all the time this lot are in power though.

British Embassy is a non-starter

Whitewavemark2

Of course it would be a lot easier just to give them safe passage and deal with the whole process quickly and efficiently once they arrive.

Not going to happen all the time this lot are in power though.

I doubt if the Home Office could cope. It is notoriously chaotically run... Something radical would need to be done to change this.

Just for interest, this thread, the original tweet and comments

twitter.com/ColinYeo1/status/1464255403663974404

In my working life I occasionally had dealings with the Home Office.

Yes even back then it was both chaotic and xenophobic. We had a member of the home office seconded to our department, and she was absolutely dreadful, to such an extent it was requested that she returned PDQ, as her biased meant that she was making very stupid decisions. I think it has got worse since.

They have a minister who is both a bully and not very bright.

I have just taken four minutes to watch Lord Kerr explain his thoughts on the government claims about refugees yesterday.

Full transcript here: bit.ly/3xqvYL1.

The young Lady named was desperately trying to join her fiancé.

Please, watch the French film 'Welcome' - about a young Iraki trying to do the same ... I have watched this film 3 times- and everytime I think 'he could be my grandson' ...

youtu.be/t40ANH4Pe14

TopsyIrene06

I have just taken four minutes to watch Lord Kerr explain his thoughts on the government claims about refugees yesterday.

Full transcript here: bit.ly/3xqvYL1.

That is very good, isn't it TopsyIrene06? Thank goodness we still have people willing to call out the liars in "parliamentary language".

The link didn't work well for me so here it is again:

hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2021-11-25/debates/9FD5AE92-CEDB-4179-99FB-0D4DBE0A671E/details#contribution-A154E839-D996-447E-86D6-F408F4562978

Alegrias1

TopsyIrene06

I have just taken four minutes to watch Lord Kerr explain his thoughts on the government claims about refugees yesterday.

Full transcript here: bit.ly/3xqvYL1.

That is very good, isn't it TopsyIrene06? Thank goodness we still have people willing to call out the liars in "parliamentary language".

The link didn't work well for me so here it is again:

hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2021-11-25/debates/9FD5AE92-CEDB-4179-99FB-0D4DBE0A671E/details#contribution-A154E839-D996-447E-86D6-F408F4562978

Lord Kerr must read Gnet, such familiar corrections of the lies

Was it me, or did the following speech from Baroness Fox (former IRA supporter now ennobled for her support of Brexit) not make any sense at all?

I had to look up Baroness Fox of Buckley. Apparently the Town Council of Buckley wrote to Boris Johnson because they didn't want the town to be associated with her.

Bravo, Buckley.

Can't do tech Alegrias1! Worth a look though isn't it.

That peerage MaizieD was the one that absolutely flawed me. I never know what she is banging on about either.