The foolishness of anti-vaxxers

Anti Vaxers make me fume. I think they should sign a document to say they don’t want treatment from the nhs if they catch the virus They’re so selfish and muddle headed

I’m fully vaccinated and had my booster, too. Like many disabled, I have quite a turnover of home helps. The very best of these has now seemingly disappeared but her replacement too, is a hard working, capable and nice, young woman. She is fully vaccinated like all her family, wears a mask to work and opens a window as soon as she arrives. ( I can’t manage to open windows myself)
The former home help has, so gossip tells me, found a full time job working in a cafe attached to a service station. So unvaccinated, she hands food, coffee etc to people all day. The thought worries me.
My family think I should warn her employers she has refused to be vaccinated.
I prefer to hope that should this COVID epidemic continue, vaccination will become compulsory for all who work within the public sector.

Susan55

I also think it is important to point out here that the 'vaccine' being given out so freely at this time is NOT the same as any other 'vaccine' anyone might have had in the past - such as measles, chicken pox, mumps, etc, etc. The Covid vaccine is a completely different technology and still very much in experimental stages on such a large scale. So I can't follow any argument that suggests that if you have previously been vaccinated against flu, malaria, tetanus, or whatever, then this is no different.

It IS different. To call it a 'vaccine' is a misnomer and a little misleading for the general population because it gives the impression it is the same, and it is NOT.

None of that's true, though, is it Susan55?

We had a patient (GP) who wouldn't put foreign stuff in her body, had breast implants though!!! My favourite is the youngsters who'll buy a tab in a nightclub loo but won't have the vax

Hetty58

Should the unvaccinated receive free hospital treatment for Covid?

Yes of course. Or are you also going to exclude smokers, those who play extreme sports etc?

The problem I have with people who don’t have a vaccine is not that they are exercising their choice, but that so many of them are hell bent on influencing others.

If someone chooses not to be vaccinated, I personally feel that they’re misinformed and selfish, but whilst I am not happy at their choice and potential impact on others, I would support their right to choose. If they work with vulnerable people (in a care home setting, for example) they should only be allowed to continuing to work with this cohort if they are vaccinated. They can close not to be vaccinated, they just can’t put others at risk.

The other thing I don’t get, is by all means choose for yourself, don’t try to influence the choice of others. I abhor the radical anti vaxxers spouting nonsense to all and sundry

GoldenAge

I'm not an anti=vaxxer BUT - and here's the rub, the covid 'vaccines' are not vaccines but gene therapy - read the science, and the BBC publication today of the research showing how the astra-zeneca therapy has caused lots of blood clots - we already knew it had done so but now we know how that has happened, is compelling. I think what we look at as people of senior years is how our lives have been prolonged by the various 'vaccines' but what we don't consider is what's happening to our younger population who are now turning up in their thousands with heart and other inflammatory conditions as a result of their jabs - these are conditions which will be life-limiting for them.

Oops, another one.

You've completely misunderstood the reports about AZ and the thing you say about gene therapy is just plain wrong.

Any post that starts I'm not an anti-vaxxer BUT rings a few warning bells for me.

If we who are vaccinated can still get and pass on the virus, does it mean that the unvaccinated are really any more dangerous than the rest of us? Surely the danger is only to themselves as they're more likely to be seriously ill or to die?
I have a family member who is fervently anti-vac. He isn't stupid (Cambridge graduate) but is convinced that all vaccination is what he calls 'bad science'. He does a LOT of research (obsessively, frankly) but is also convinced that there isn't a pandemic and that it's all a hoax and about control. How he thinks our (or any other) government would be organised enough to sort out this 'control', I have no idea. But I'm not scared to be around him - he is no more likely, I think, to pass on Covid to me than anyone else I mix with. (I could be wrong, of course..)

A C4 documentary called 'The Antivax Conspiracy' is worth watching to provide an insight into the anti-tax movement. It pre-dates Covid-19 but became more prominent during the pandemic. It is compelling, upsetting and scary, even more perhaps because of the use of tools of persuasion than the health implications. The documentary was first shown in June but is still available online at C4 if you register and search for the programme. A post by Varian a while ago brought it to my attention and I am indebted to her.

I do understand why some young people are concerned about the COVID-19 vaccine because there remain questions about its long term impact. From what we know, these are unfounded but doubts remain. We do know that the vaccine has positive effects of reducing the risk of catching COVID-19, being seriously ill, being hospitalised and dying. It is not a 100% guarantee but it is, for most people, especially of a certain age, the best option.

Susan 55 I think one of the reasons for vaccination is that it affects the transmission rate. I don't know exact figures but you are much less likely to pass it on

GoldenAge

I'm not an anti=vaxxer BUT - and here's the rub, the covid 'vaccines' are not vaccines but gene therapy - read the science, and the BBC publication today of the research showing how the astra-zeneca therapy has caused lots of blood clots - we already knew it had done so but now we know how that has happened, is compelling. I think what we look at as people of senior years is how our lives have been prolonged by the various 'vaccines' but what we don't consider is what's happening to our younger population who are now turning up in their thousands with heart and other inflammatory conditions as a result of their jabs - these are conditions which will be life-limiting for them.

My partner is a scientist, who was involved in the initial stages of the AZ vaccine. He's just read your post and I can't repeat what he said about your claim that it's "gene therapy", which it most certainly is not.

Oops! The documentary 'The Antivax Conspiracy' on C4 provided insight into the Antivax movement, not as I wrote the anti-tax movement. Apologies.

Susan55

I also think it is important to point out here that the 'vaccine' being given out so freely at this time is NOT the same as any other 'vaccine' anyone might have had in the past - such as measles, chicken pox, mumps, etc, etc. The Covid vaccine is a completely different technology and still very much in experimental stages on such a large scale. So I can't follow any argument that suggests that if you have previously been vaccinated against flu, malaria, tetanus, or whatever, then this is no different.

It IS different. To call it a 'vaccine' is a misnomer and a little misleading for the general population because it gives the impression it is the same, and it is NOT.

That's absolute nonsense. All the different vaccines are vaccines. The technology didn't just appear overnight. Scientists have been working on the various technologies for years.

Totally agree with everything you have said SAGO and can't honestly believe some of the comments on here I am double vaccinated and boosted before any comments none of us know how you going to react to these vaccines

Well said

FWIW I think my own experience of this weird weird virus gives me a perspective on both sides.
In March 2020 I believe I had the gastric variation of covid. As this was way before testing and wasn't a recognised symptom then I have no way of knowing for sure but life has been miserable since as I believe I developed long covid, showing many of the related symptoms - fatigue, mind fog, constant flu like inflammation. After my first vaccine - pfizer - I had a bad UTI which had to be treated with antibiotics, after my second pfizer jab I went down with a severe case of shingles (still suffering resultant PHN nerve damage) THEN in October I tested positive for the dreaded Covid itself despite being double vaccinated and can't seem to get well no matter what I do.
Even so, I am obviously one of the fortunate ones as I'm still here to tell the tale but I'm now in a quandry about having a booster, fearful of another possible reaction.
So, I understand an antivax position up to a certain point. The huge problem is it is so random, so unproven, so inexplicable in all it's forms and mutations it's impossible to take up a failsafe position. If I'm being utterly honest, I believe all we can do is act in good conscience to try and safeguard society and hope for the best.

At what point does anti vaxxers human rights supersede mine?

Growstuff, I don't think you can say it is 'nonsense'. Anyone who comes in and says 'nonsense' to something you say is obviously on the defensive, and you have to wonder why. If is is an attempt at a put down in an effort to make your own argument stronger, I won't fall for it.

The covid vaccine is a new technology and in using the word new I don't mean it was created last week or last year. Of course they have been working on it for a very, very long time. However, it is 'new' in terms of using it across the whole world in such large numbers on a trial basis.

And it IS different from what many, many people understand to be a vaccine, as mentioned in a previous post. It is NOT like the measles, flu, mumps, tetanus, etc etc vaccine. It uses a different technology and this is not hidden from public view. It's all over every website about the coronavirus vaccine. It is different from the conventional vaccines that most of us will have had in the past. Any search on the internet of 'How does the covid vaccine differ from traditional vaccines? will show the difference between them. I don't agree with you that all vaccines are the same. Yes, they are the same in that both try to help the immune system overcome a virus, but the method for doing so is entirely different.

It is widely understood by the whole population of every single country that data is continually being collected. Why? Because they are trying to find out what works and what doesn't. They are trying to find out what is safe and what isn't. There can be no argument about that because it is a fact.

It is widely known that the covid vaccine is on trial. It has not yet been properly approved because testing has not been completed. It has only been approved on an 'emergency use basis' with no liability for adverse effects by the developers.

Don't come in and say 'nonsense'. Talking like that doesn't find truths. It hides truth.

Mamma66 totally agree. I have relatives who, following the advice of anti vaxxer Dr Mer cola, are “well prepared” with a nebuliser for hydro chloroquine and ivermectin bran (which is a wormer for their horse). They think they’ll be fine with that and that the vaccinations are all planned genocide. They constantly feel the need to keep me informed because “ they’re doing the research” and they think doctors are stupid. I just grit my teeth and pray they don’t catch Covid. They are beyond listening to anyone apart from the anti vaxxers.

growstuff, you need to tell your partner who actually worked on the vaccine that he really needs to search the internet for the true information.

DH and I were talking about this at lunchtime, when Jeremy Vine had some other random person on telling us what they thought about Covid. The reduction in the deference of the general population is probably a good thing. But when did it become acceptable to think that as a member of the public you know better than someone who has studied, researched and worked on something for decades?

Sad but she's ONE .in how many? There are casualties from all sorts of medical interventions all the time. Because of rampant social media, now we hear about every single one relating to vaccines. 1000s die Each year in course of operations but it doesn't out me off having surgery that may well save my life! Your argument is a non runner IMO

I really don't know where you're getting this information from? Different? The production of vaccines is THE SAME for all the only differences being the differing genomes used for different viruses. Trials were done super quick only because SO many people were infected so very quickly, usually they have to wait for enough infections to present to Carry out trials, sadly with covid there was a ready made population of hundreds of 1000s of people infected at the same time. another factor was the funding, usually part gov funds and private sector, charities etc, with covid funding was made available immediately by gov alone and no delays due to raising investment. You need to research how business works as well as how the nasty pixies who are trying to change our DNA so we all DIE!!!

Why do anti-vaxxers not realise the possible effects on others and the additional strains on the NHS? This is a global pandemic and we need to take every possible precaution.

Those vaccinated (and those who are not because of medical reasons) should be issued with an ID-type card to allow them to access public indoor places. If you don't have one - you can't enter.

Whitewavemark2 - Your post is so powerful, I shall post it on my Facebook page.

French Biostatistician, Christine Cotton, recently began her own research and analysis of the VAERS vaccine adverse effect data, to establish a better understanding of what the real risks of vaccination are and their particular nature and probability. To do this she downloaded the raw VAERS data so as to evaluate it line by line. Shocked by what she discovered Christine began to speak out on her own data and findings with a view to informing the wider public of the real risks of vaccinations against the benefits claimed.

In a valuable and informative interview with UKColumn, Chrisine Cotton divided a presentation of her work into two parts. Part 1 begins with an introduction to herself and her professional work as a biostatistician. This is followed by a detailed analysis of the complex procedures and regulations required of pharmaceutical companies in developing new vaccines. The results of her analysis of the procedural and regulatory steps taken to introduce COVID-19 emergency vaccines led Christine to conclude that it was simply not possible to develop, test and unleash the suite of COVID-19 vaccines on the US and world population, in a manner and timeframe which met all the then existing public health and vaccine safety constraints, checks and regulations. In short the development and vaccine roll-out was just too fast to justify the vaccine safety and efficacy claims made.

Christine concludes from her analysis of the implementation of the COVID-19 vaccination programme and the VAERS data itself that the vaccines carry significant health risks to all members of the public be they children, grown adults or the elderly. Within this cross section of society additional risks are identifyable for pregnant women and their babies. The risks deserve special attention when it is realised that they include life changing disabilities and even death.

Analysis of US VAERS Vaccine Adverse Reactions Data by Biostatistician Christine Cotton Part 2 focuses on the identification of key vaccine adverse health risks within the body of the VAERS data. Her findings make stark reading against the continuing claim by the US government and US Public Health agencies that vaccines are safe and that their benefits outweigh the risks.
www.ukcolumn.org

Anti vaxxers that I know are just driving me nuts now. The rubbish they spout about their reasons for not getting jabbed is ridiculous. One pumps fillers into her face, but won't get something that might save her life!
The vaccine is free, it can save you life, just take it. Taking up hospital ICU beds that needed for other sick people needing life threating cancers, heart trouble, etc, they should be ashamed of themselves for not stepping up.