Liz Truss replaces Lord Frost as chief negotiator with the EU

The unexamined opinion is not worth having.

If it’s a Tory
Cover up story.

Allsorts

I find it hard to think of a Labour woman who has any credence. They broke the mould with Barbara Castke and Shirley Williams, what women of integrity, outspoken well read and eloquent speakers. You couldn’t say that about Angela Rayner or Diane Abbot or anyone else they have I fear, mind you can’t think of any men they have either that’s up to it, Keir ok but he hasn’t an opinion of his own. He’s just a lawyer.

Better a lawyer leading us than a second rate journalists whose career is based on making up silly stories….( just what we need in a world pandemic)

but he hasn’t an opinion of his own

What an extraordinary assertion ?? How do you know ??

Lucca

*but he hasn’t an opinion of his own*

What an extraordinary assertion ?? How do you know ??

She possibly 'found it in her head'

Some are showing their true colours on here. Ganging up and making fun of another poster who is always respectful to others just because you don't agree with their views and politics. Uncalled for and nasty in my opinion.

Maudi

Some are showing their true colours on here. Ganging up and making fun of another poster who is always respectful to others just because you don't agree with their views and politics. Uncalled for and nasty in my opinion.

It's not ganging up - it's just that there's rather more of us that disagree than agree with her.

Maudi

Some are showing their true colours on here. Ganging up and making fun of another poster who is always respectful to others just because you don't agree with their views and politics. Uncalled for and nasty in my opinion.

It's hard Maudi, and yes, I think we should all take a step back from this thread. But this is not, as you say, about 'views and politics' - but about how said 'views and politics' are reached- and urmstongran's comment about resonate so much with those of us who have studied all the issues carefully, and can see that the warnings given by experts were true and massively damaging to the UK as a country, and to all of us- whichever way we voted.

What is even more so upsetting, is that many now just refuse to accept this, and come up with solutions which would have even more drastic effects on all of us, and even more so, our grandchildren- like 'Trigger Art 16, and move to WTO' without being able to explain how on earth it would be beneficial to the UK (the people and our grandchildren). It is painful, it is utterly upsetting and very dangerous.

I try always to be polite- but when comments are made such as the above by urmstongran ... it is very very hard to resist. Not to poke fun, or gang up- but because of the dire consequences.

Kali2 My thoughts exactly.

We have spent five years pointing out, sometimes calmly, sometimes kindly, sometimes neither, that whatever you think you voted for was and is never going to happen. It might be helpful if you started attacking the people who lied to you instead of the people who told you the truth

Sadly, I cannot lay claim to this piece of calm common sense, it was James O'Brien of LBC. Sums it all up as far as I am concerned.

She may be clever, having gone to Oxford, but that doesn't mean she's intelligent......she seems pretty daft to me!

I like Rishi Sunak but as for the rest, no matter which party!, I am not very impressed. Kier Starmer is supposed to be a barrister, intelligent you would assume, but no……. afraid not.

Why do you think Keir Starmer is not intelligent, please?

Given Kier Starmer's qualifications and achievements, it is very hard to imagine that he is anything other than fiercely intelligent.

I'm not sure about all this. I think we sometimes have to shine a light on the other side of intelligence which comes from an emotional understanding. Letters after names obviously imply a high IQ but this can often be very limited to an area of knowledge like law or medicine. In order to possess real intelligence, I need to witness a person's ability to perceive, to evaluate and then to solve the problems before them, while at the same time expressing themselves in an emotional (not dramatic) manner. Someone like John Major springs to mind, no qualifications but genuine and reliable. Oxford or Cambridge aren't the be all and end all.
As an aside I think Kier Starmer is intelligent, but his being fiercely intelligent does not not come across for me.

Few politicians in this current crop have any hands on experience in the areas they are supposed to oversee - they all seem to be bankers, lawyers or journalists - politics is a bit of a sideline for many of them - where are the scientists, medics, academic economists, teachers? and those who’ve worked in retail, transport or the arts? Granted there are one or two in the HoC, but in the current cabinet? They seem to be a bunch of part timers. Why shouldn’t the health secretary be a medic? Other countries have politicians who have more credible experience - I’m thinking Angela Merkel , Mario Draghi - why not the U.K. now?

Why shouldn’t the health secretary be a medic? Definitely that, vegansrock, my uncle a FRCP held that office. His brain was and still is razor sharp precisely because he understood the problems and was passionate. He still raises his concerns about proposed NHS reforms today but the current politicians seem to arrogant to listen. Such a wishy washy lot, they could be in pantomime this year rather than in government!

Maudi
You couldn’t be more right. Particularly when Urmstongran has extended the hand of friendship to posters on this very thread who have had their difficulties.
But hey ho, I know who’s the better person.

Our Health Minister in France is a doctor (neurologist). He has done an excellent job and has a very measured, informed way of communication.

I think that, in the main, ministers don't usually have qualifications or experience in their areas, they rely on civil servants to brief them. At least they did, before the rise of the SPADS, so many of whom do not seem impartial.

They're supposed to pick up their brief quickly and listen to expert advice!

In an ideal world ?

There have to be exceptions eg Attorney General who is a lawyer.

Mamie

Our Health Minister in France is a doctor (neurologist). He has done an excellent job and has a very measured, informed way of communication.

Yes Mamie and to be sure that makes for a pure, unmuddied way of thinking too.

Calistemon

I think that, in the main, ministers don't usually have qualifications or experience in their areas, they rely on civil servants to brief them. At least they did, before the rise of the SPADS, so many of whom do not seem impartial.

They're supposed to pick up their brief quickly and listen to expert advice!

In an ideal world ?

There have to be exceptions eg Attorney General who is a lawyer.

It's not surprising SpADs aren't impartial, as they're employed directly by ministers to support the promotion of certain agendas. The number of SpADs being employed to do "civil service" jobs is one reason why the objectivity of decision-making is being undermined.

MerylStreep

Maudi
You couldn’t be more right. Particularly when Urmstongran has extended the hand of friendship to posters on this very thread who have had their difficulties.
But hey ho, I know who’s the better person.

What's that got to do with being factually wrong?

And yes, I think Keir Starmer is fiercely intelligent. He came from a working class background, went to grammar school and Leeds University before becoming a barrister, QC and DPP. That is impressive however you look at it.
I don't know how many people on here actually listen to his speeches, read what he says, follow him on Twitter etc, but I get the impression some people judge him without listening to what he actually says.

16:42MerylStreep

Thank you MerylStreep glad someone shares my point that trying to belittle another poster who has a different political view to you is not on. GN in my opinion is just a grans forum it's not an Eton or Oxford political debating forum. Surely we can post whatever we like within the GN guidelines whether it's frivolous or fact checked.