Liz Truss replaces Lord Frost as chief negotiator with the EU

Urmstongran

My head. and What I read in the round I suppose.

Well, how about checking your fact before you post?

And, while we have your attention; what was the 'agreement hat Cameron negotiated with the EU?

And why are you so keen to see all employment regulation removed?

Urmstongran

I disagree Kali2 if he was so rubbish why are the EU delighted they no longer have to negotiate with him? They must think they’re going to be dealing with Appeaser May Mk2.

Probably because they no longer have to deal with someone who doesn't read the legislation and who has been trying to unpick the agreement signed by Johnson.

Coastpath

Educational qualifications are not the only measure of intelligence and they are certainly no indication of a person's ability to succeed in life, their ability to empathise or to achieve great things for society.

Give me an honest person with integrity over a liar with a 2:1 in PPE any day.

I agree with you and I bet you wouldn't call anyone scumbag. Angela Rayner has pulled herself up and is sitting next to the Labour leader. I didn't actually mean her I just meant I would for once like to see emancipation in the labour party being shown and a women leader. They have had women who could have done it in the past Barbara Castle and Shirley Williams both Oxbridge if that has to be a criteria.

Urmstongran

My head. and What I read in the round I suppose.

Well, there is no (polite) answer to that, for sure!

I don’t want to be busy fact checking before I post MaizieD. I don’t wish to spend hours on the internet. I like to spend my day doing other stuff too. Just regard my posts as the opinion of Joe Soap in the street or pub. If that annoys you, just scroll on by, no need to comment. Or correct me if you wish and have the time. Entirely up to you.

If I quote something from an article I’ve read, I’ve been sneered at in the past - ‘oh I expect that’s from the Daily Fail’ etc. So from now on I’m not bothered what anyone thinks of my opinions because that’s all they are. Others of course are available. Dissect or not, criticise or not, ignore or not I really don’t mind.

As an example.
I did read - obviously years ago now - that David Cameron has asked for concessions from the EU that weren’t too onerous. They got rejected. Some newspapers (don’t know now and don’t care and I’m not checking) said he returned to the UK disappointed. Some newspapers even described he came home ‘with his tail between his legs’. Other newspapers - after the referendum said the EU never expected Brexit to be voted in (none of the intelligentsia did) and that they regretted not offering Cameron more on that table.

But all this is in the mists of time. Who cares with the minutiae now? Well you and some other forensic politicos but not me. I could of course spend a good half hour now trawling through Google to find evidence to back up my statement but do you know what? I cannot be bothered!

This took me a while to tap out. I’ve got a meal to prepare as just home after a long day out. I’ve done it to illustrate my take on things going forward. Worth it as I shan’t be explaining myself again. Done & dusted.

I intend to comment and leave it at that. You do with it as you feel fit. Or not. Your choice.

I am sorry urmstongran, but it doesn't work like that - truly.

If you say that we should cancel Deal and go the WTO rule- as an 'opinion' not based on study of the facts, from reliable sources- then it becomes very dangerous, Forensic politicos - really. Just because we take care to fact check what our 'opinions' are based on and what we write. Minutiae? I am sorry, but this is utter bol...... nonsense!

Well this is how most people in real life talk about what is in the news - that they have read or seen on tv. That’ll do for me but honestly no problem - just ignore me. Or tell me I’m talking through my bottom. Either response is fine by me.

I find it hard to think of a Labour woman who has any credence. They broke the mould with Barbara Castke and Shirley Williams, what women of integrity, outspoken well read and eloquent speakers. You couldn’t say that about Angela Rayner or Diane Abbot or anyone else they have I fear, mind you can’t think of any men they have either that’s up to it, Keir ok but he hasn’t an opinion of his own. He’s just a lawyer.

I like Rachel Reeves.

Urmstongran

Well this is how most people in real life talk about what is in the news - that they have read or seen on tv. That’ll do for me but honestly no problem - just ignore me. Or tell me I’m talking through my bottom. Either response is fine by me.

We are talking here about something VERY serious, the future of the UK, the future for our grandchildren- we are not talking about Kate's dress, or whether we prefer cats to dogs ...

And I do try to be polite and fair. But you did clearly state that the UK should trigger Art 16 and go for WTO rules- and THAT is NOT about 'opinion' - it is dangerous and really serious. You truly scare me with that stuff.

I really think you should take your opinions off to a less rigorous forum, like Chat Ug because on here you tend to validate the view of leave voters as being uninterested in fact and unconcerned about the UK is governed.

However, far be it from me to tell you what to do. It's just my opinion...

Every Brexit minister has so far been sacked or resigned? It’s truly a poisoned chalice.

We read online and newspapers, we then form our own opinions.
It would be nice if we had the time and inclination to fact check, but speaking purely for myself I don't.

But my opinion is as relevant as a fact checked opinion
Why?
Because I am the man in the street (UK) and I have a vote.

I will not wring my hands, talk my country down.

But my opinion is as relevant as a fact checked opinion.

It's not. Really it's not.

Fake news is so easily spread we need to be aware of what's what…..

You often said Brexit did not happen with May because she was a remainer at heart. But Johnson, Frost and Truss were much more remainers that she wver was. Frost and Truss made the case for Remain very strongly and repeatedly.

I can see how Cherrytree59's opinion, however ill-informed it might be, could be relevant if it is influential in deciding the way she intends to vote.

But in a serious discussion it's useless and gives a poor impression of the validity of the points made by the opinion giver.. Sorry, that's just how it is.

I can see what you mean MaizieD.

People who think their ill informed opinion is as valid as one with facts and evidence may have an equal vote, but their vote will be cast from a position of ignorance, thus creating many of the problems we have in our current political system, where charlatans and liars can pull the wool over peoples eyes.

Cherrytree59

We read online and newspapers, we then form our own opinions.
It would be nice if we had the time and inclination to fact check, but speaking purely for myself I don't.

But my opinion is as relevant as a fact checked opinion
Why?
Because I am the man in the street (UK) and I have a vote.

I will not wring my hands, talk my country down.

But if you don't check facts how can you possibly make an informed decision? On anything?

... and this is just how we got to where we are now - in this Brexit disaster.

Kali2

... and this is just how we got to where we are now - in this Brexit disaster.

But, but..

How very dare we suggest that some leave voters made their choice on the strength of some un factchecked assertions they read or heard somewhere...

... or found 'in their head' even ...

As in "If you don't like my principles, I have others ...". Says it all.

Opinions and principles are subjective - and can be argued and debated. FACTS are not.