When is mis-speaking actually lying to deceive?

MaizieD

JaneJudge

did you watch politics live in the afternoon? I don't know who the bloke was (MP or otherwise) but he said the solution is people take on a second job or they work longer hours or retrain in another field!

The solution to what, JJ?

Of course, if it were a tory MP who said it he probably thinks that extraordinarily well paid second jobs are two a penny for MPs and are easy to fit in because you get paid squillions for a few hours work per month.

Sorry Maizie, I realised afterwards I hadn't said to what! to rising fuel bills and cost of living.

I don't want to work more hours. I work part time in a physically demanding job, which is 6 hours every weekday and I think on top of my care responsibilities (which I don't get paid for) it's enough and I am sure lots of other people feel the same. Maybe it is different if you have a sit down job, I don't know

and what opportunities are there for people to retrain? retrain doing what exactly?

Yes, I did listen to the link, but as I am half deaf anyway, cannot make it out.Unless a voice is as clear as a bell I never can, and he is anything but.

You can reference what the original poster has posted here, a link to BBC politics twitter page Just scroll down and it links to videos and what he has/hasn't said

Anybody with an ounce of common sense, a basic knowledge of the level of benefits and the cost of heating bills would realise that £140 per week couldn't be right.

If he'd have delved a bit further, he would have known that the energy companies have a cap on the number of grants they award and many eligible people couldn't even claim the allowance - but that really would be knowing some details. He would also have known that the eligibility criteria vary between energy companies and are strict. Many people on very low incomes aren't eligible because they don't tick the right boxes.

lemongrove

Yes, I did listen to the link, but as I am half deaf anyway, cannot make it out.Unless a voice is as clear as a bell I never can, and he is anything but.

He was speaking clearly and I can assure you that he said per week.

lemongrove

Don’t be personal Lucca

It’s easy to mis hear, and was a possibility, as is the cut to VAT.
I also challenge the ‘he intended to walk out’.
I further challenge ‘knowingly’ giving wrong answers, as I think it quite likely that he either doesn’t know or forgets a lot,
He’s a rather chaotic and eccentric person.
Why everyone has to accept the OP’s thoughts on the matter as absolute gospel is a mystery to me....all things can be challenged.
He isn’t a PM with all answers at his fingertips ( be nice if he was of course) but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is lying either ( only if you want to believe that because it fits with your own agenda.)

Oh for goodness sake Lemon! Give it a rest. I accept that all politicians put a gloss on things, will swerve the conversation into an area which puts them and their party in a better light, I accept that he will not know the answer to every question. but why just bluster, waffle and lie? The fuel inflation problem is very current and I would expect any PM or Minister worth their title to know the facts. Why do you keep supporting this dreadfully inadequate PM?

I assume you supported the dreadfully inadequate Jeremy Corbyn Gill?
I do challenge what posters say as there is a lot of lazy assumptions and sometimes sheer rubbish spouted by those who hate the government.
Johnson mumbles, is never on top of details and frequently forgets and gets things wrong and probably lies rather than admit to not knowing answers.That doesn’t mean that he always lies, nor can the OP get away with thinking he was going to walk out (unless it’s clear that he started to walk off.)
There is enough fake news around without us on GN accepting anything at all that is said.
If you want to believe that he was lying rather than mis speaking about the £140 then that’s up to you.

this links to a bbc article that contains the recording of PMQs

I read an article abut Johnson recenty, can't remember where. But the main thesis was that he is a bulls****er. He doesn't knowingly lie to achieve an aim, he just says the first thing that comes into his head and doesn't really understand that you are supposed to tell the truth about things. He just says what he thinks the person listening to him wants to hear.

So you can't tell when he's lying or telling the truth, and neither can he.

Just what we need from a leader during our biggest challenge for generations.

recenty? recently!

One interesting thing Johnson said was that Labour is intent on taking us back into the Union. Not true of course, but…

Just shows that Starmer is bang on when he says “Labour will make Brexit work” it is certainly cutting through to Johnson who appears to be finding it impossible to make anything brexit related work..

Even the telegraph is beginning to question his ability.

Hansard has this online
The Prime Minister: The right hon. Lady talks about energy. I think the House would agree that she has a lot more energy than the current Leader of the Opposition. I welcome her point, because what the Government are doing is supporting people throughout the pandemic: 2.2 million people supported with the warm home discount, worth £140 per week, which we introduced; pensioners supported with the £300 winter fuel payments; and there are cold weather payments worth £25 a week for 4 million people up and down the country. That is what we are doing, and that is on top of everything that we are doing to support people on low incomes. We are cutting taxes for …

Well, here you are, lemon, especially for the hard of hearing. This is the Hansard record of PMQs, 5th January 2022.

Just in case people can't be bothered to follow the link and read what he actually said (twice) I'll copy and paste it here:

The right hon. Lady talks about energy. I think the House would agree that she has a lot more energy than the current Leader of the Opposition. I welcome her point, because what the Government are doing is supporting people throughout the pandemic: 2.2 million people supported with the warm home discount, worth £140 per week, which we introduced; pensioners supported with the £300 winter fuel payments;

The right hon. Lady obviously did not listen to my previous answer. Let me remind her that the warm home discount already supports 2.2 million people to the tune of £140 a week. Pensioners are supported with £300 through the winter fuel payment,

I've copied the bit about the winter fuel payment, too, because the £300 only applies to pensioners over the age of 80. A bit of 'not quite' lying...

hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-01-05/debates/F0DD6E66-0813-4A93-814D-B6FAAFDC8A16/Engagements

Eh?

The Warm Home Discount is worth £140 for the whole winter period. It's an annual payment for a limited group of people.

Single pensioners don't receive £300.

Cold Weather Payments are for a very limited time - usually only one week.

Millions of people on low incomes aren't covered by any of the above schemes.

Snap! It wasn't difficult to verify, was it mokryna?

pensioners get £300 winter fuel payment ....? Anyone on here who does? £200 per household here !

paddyann54

pensioners get £300 winter fuel payment ....? Anyone on here who does? £200 per household here !

Is Johnson's dad over 80? Perhaps he's just remembering what his dad gets...

I don’t get any winter payment as ‘they say’ I have the same average temperatures as the French Dom-Toms in Paris, not the one degree last night.

I assume you supported the dreadfully inadequate Jeremy Corbyn Gill?. Rather a personal attack there lemon? No, I did not support Corbyn as you well know, what a silly comment

The same ‘personal attack’ that you wrote to me Gill
Since you have always appeared to be a Labour voter I thought you would have voted for him at the last GE, after all there were really only two choices at the time.
Therefore we all had to pick a side.

It amazes me how people can continue to defend the indefensible, even when presented with the evidence.

Come on lemon, we've posted Johnson's actual words as recorded by Hansard. Anything to say about it?

lemongrove

The same ‘personal attack’ that you wrote to me Gill
Since you have always appeared to be a Labour voter I thought you would have voted for him at the last GE, after all there were really only two choices at the time.
Therefore we all had to pick a side.

Yes well, it just shows that you shouldn't make assumptions doesn't it. I have never indicated that I am a Corbyn supporter, I have just voiced my frustration with the inadequate liar that some people have foisted upon the country in their desperate desire for Brexit. My conscience is clear in that regard, but surely you know that there are more than just two political parties in an election, even if the current FPTP system makes it possible only for Conservatives and Labour to win?

Yes Maizie ? very kind and considerate of you to ‘the hard of hearing’
He said the wrong thing about the warm homes, but that doesn’t make it done on purpose ( a lie) far more likely with Johnson in that he muddled the figures up.
The evidence is that he gets things wrong fairly regularly.
Annoying yes, a crime, no.