Another ‘oh Jeremy Corbyn’ movement? ?

Sadly, many 'decent' politicians have found, to their cost, that just having principles and starting a new political party is not enough, without huge amounts of money and backing, decency and a desire for change are just not enough. Look at the last GE, when Change UK was formed, 8 Labour and 3 Conservatives who were disillusioned by how their own party were going. Where are they now?

Casdon

I think longer term it’s far more threatening for the Tories than you are giving credit for if this does happen, because they are equally as divided between hard and moderate on the right, and it will polarise their MPs and members too. It will make for very interesting times I think with lots of changes of allegiance, it’s probably exactly what British politics needs at the moment.

I think that's right.

If the very left-leaning members and MPs leave to join this as yet un-named party then it could persuade those who are in the centre to re-join the LP and the electorate to vote for them again as it was Corbyn and Momentum which put people off voting for the LP for years.

it was Corbyn and Momentum which put people off voting for the LP for years.

I would, with respect, disagree.

In the 2017 GE Labour very nearly did for the tories, May only got to form a government with the help of the DUP.

After that scare the media set about their Corbyn demonisation and destruction programme. Before that they'd been pretty 'normal' in their treatment of the LP. So, only 2 years of 'off putting'. It worked well, though, didn't it?

Corbyn lost in 2017 against the worst Tory campaign I have seen in my life It is much more complicated than demonisation by the press.

Do these people simply not get that the more small parties we have, the longer we will be stuck with the Tories? What planet are they on? Where have they left their brains?

I think this was inevitable.

The Corbynites are vehemently opposed to Starmer - I've been involved in some of the discussions in a FB group I belong to and it is obvious that there is no way the two factions are going to unite.

It has been pointed out to JC's supporters that the country - for many reasons - is just not going to accept what they consider to be a far-left party. The reasons why are a separate discussion.

I'm not personally opposed to the principle of "for the many not the few" - is a more fair and equitable society a bad thing? But JC is tainted, maybe unfairly, but tainted nevertheless and I don't think his new party will attract enough voters to make it feasible.

But I think the split needs to happen. The antagonism between the Starmer and Corbyn camps is endless, futile. I have written polite posts in my group suggesting that we unite under Starmer to defeat this current government as a starting point (not that I'm overly enthusiastic about the man), but have been met with such a barrage of rage-filled insults from the Corbyn camp that I've cancelled my membership of the group. Let them form a party and see how many votes they attract in the real world, and allow Starmer to develop a more realistic manifesto. The endless arguing is utterly pointless. The reality is that Corbyn is the wrong man with the right ideas (some of them, anyway).

#LabourLies: its offer to help with #Energy bills is what you neither want nor need

Here’s the problem with the binary choice that both the Conservatives and Keir Starmer’s Tepid Tories insist that voters in the UK have: it asks you to choose between options you don’t want.

The example here is energy bills. The Tories say the cost of energy is rising and you have to pay it. Labour has countered by saying they would impose measures to make that cost lower than the Tories would.

But Labour – under Starmer – is trying to deceive you with a tactic known as “Relative Privation”.

A tax on oil and gas producers would only induce them to increase our bills even more so that we cover the cost and their shareholders don’t take a hit; this is a natural consequence of handing control of a monopoly over to private companies.

And improving homes with insulation or by using better building methods – both of which are measures for which Insulate Britain has been campaigning and which are therefore anathema to the Tory government – would make those dwellings more expensive to future buyers, pushing home ownership even further beyond the reach of most people (which is not to say that Insulate Britain are wrong; the issue is about providing these features affordably).

The answer to the problem of our energy bills is, of course, re-nationalisation

This writer makes sense

voxpoliticalonline.com/2022/01/10/labourlies-its-offer-to-help-with-energy-bills-is-what-you-neither-want-nor-need/

And Wes Streeting talk of

Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting has stabbed the NHS in the back by saying a future Labour government would pay private health companies to reduce the Tory-created health treatment backlog.

Organisations within the NHS responded instantly by calling for healthcare workers to join a union and get organised – on the reasonable ground that “saving the NHS isn’t coming out of Westminster.”

So not surprised that people are backing, and wanting a Labour Party for the many,the only decent polition Jeremy Corbyn

Galaxy

Corbyn lost in 2017 against the worst Tory campaign I have seen in my life It is much more complicated than demonisation by the press.

He eradicated a large tory polling lead, Galaxy. Labour actually gained 30 more seats from 2015.

Yes, they 'lost' in that they gained fewer seats than the tories, but it was a better result than 2015 under Ed Milliband.

I'm not a Corbynite, I just think that to say that Corbyn and Momentum put people off voting Labour for years is an exaggeration not borne out by the record.

The reality is that Corbyn is the wrong man with the right ideas (some of them, anyway).

I absolutely agree, Casdon.

the only decent polition Jeremy Corbyn

Problem is, Grany, Corbyn is a decent man but a rotten politician. The antithesis of Johnson.

MaizieD

^The reality is that Corbyn is the wrong man with the right ideas (some of them, anyway).^

I absolutely agree, Casdon.

the only decent polition Jeremy Corbyn

Problem is, Grany, Corbyn is a decent man but a rotten politician. The antithesis of Johnson.

... err, that was me, not Casdon!

Corbyn is a decent man but a rotten politician...

This!

Apologies, Dickens

If it happens one of the big issues will be who the Unions choose to support I think it's likely they will choose Corbyn, they don't like Starmer.

He could bring the completely loopy brother Piers onboard and give him a role, maybe Minister for Protests?

Got to be a vote catcher with some sectors surely?!

I think the unions will support Corbyn

I wouldn’t be sorry to see the back of him, Abbott and their small group of like minded MP’s.
I may be in the same group as you are Dickens. The Corbyn Monentum gang don’t accept this country will never elect a party run by someone the believe to be ‘extreme’ left ie communist.
Meanwhile ReeceMogg, Johnson, Farage and co are somehow seen as balanced in their political views.
I accept our press is largely right wing but younger people tend not to read newspapers or listen to the news. I’m unconvinced that my neighbours in red wall seats are dim and didn’t form their own negative views on Corbyn
Both our main parties need a shake up but this pandemic is obviously dominating the headlines

JenniferEccles

He could bring the completely loopy brother Piers onboard and give him a role, maybe Minister for Protests?

Got to be a vote catcher with some sectors surely?!

Couldn't be any worse than bent Boris.

But of course he wouldn't. He doesn't bad mouth his brother, but he doesn't support him either.

The way the Labour party stands right now is that it is not a party left-wingers can vote for. They're just another version of the Tories. And look where they've got us?

The trouble is it’s not a party the moderate left can vote for either.

I think a new party led by JeremybCirbyn would be a very good thing. It would put some clear water between differing views n the current Labour Party.

Jeremy Corbyn. A typo. No disrespect intended.

They're just another version of the Tories.

I just don't buy that one, GagaJo. There's no point in them appearing to be overly radical at the moment because they want voters and the electorate tends to be inherently small 'c' conservative. but I would never see them as corrupt and unfeeling as the tories.

Nor would I see them as pandering to big business, but I think they have a need to get SMEs on side because they are a vital part of our economy and have different objectives from the big corporations. As I have seen on a blog today, they are people working to earn a living. Which is different from those trying to extract as much wealth as possible from the economy. If this is seen as tory-lite I think it's shortsighted.

I never had a problem with some renationalisation as per the 2019 Labour manifesto, because it's not the source of the money that goes into nationalised industries and public services that matters, it's the effect it has on the real economy, through procurement and payment of wages that circulate to keep private enterprise going.

But, having said that, Labour are stymied every time by the 'how are you going to pay for it' question, in the way that the tories, with their small state & low tax policies, and their totally undeserved reputation for sound financial management, never are.

I'd actually be interested in some sound evidence that Labour are another version of the tories, with reference to their currently modest policies...

that's pretty old (pre christmas) news

JenniferEccles

He could bring the completely loopy brother Piers onboard and give him a role, maybe Minister for Protests?

Got to be a vote catcher with some sectors surely?!

... why say that?

Jeremy Corbyn had his brother ejected from a party conference on one occasion because of his disruptive behaviour. He was heckling him during a climate change discussion.

I really doubt the two are close.

It was just a lighthearted comment Dickens!

Dickens

JenniferEccles

He could bring the completely loopy brother Piers onboard and give him a role, maybe Minister for Protests?

Got to be a vote catcher with some sectors surely?!

... why say that?

Jeremy Corbyn had his brother ejected from a party conference on one occasion because of his disruptive behaviour. He was heckling him during a climate change discussion.

I really doubt the two are close.

Whereas Boris and his brother are great mates-you remember Jo Johnson who resigned as a minister and MP because of Brexit

If we are discussing family we could talk about Johnsons father that would be interesting, unpleasant but interesting.

I think it's about time we had more options.

I have heard a few conservatives say they would vote Labour if it didn't represent the left wing.

I'd join a new party of his, as would my AC and many of their friends