Nicola Sturgeon vows to start process of second independence referendum

You know, all your posts are valid.

There are people who are fed up with Sturgeon talking about independence. There are Scots who just want the whole thing to disappear. There are extremists who blame the English for everything.

And despite it all, the SNP won enough of the vote to form a Scottish government in the 2021 election. The SNP have nearly 80% of the seats available to them in the Westminster government. Sturgeon is the only UK political leader with a positive popularity rating.

So despite what you say, the SNP seem to be doing something right. So you can tell us all we're stupid and taken in by the nasty Nats, because that's a really good way of getting us to agree with you.

Too poor, too wee, too stupid. Aye, right.

Despite Nicola being on TV day after day before the election last year the SNP didn't gain enough of a majority outright and had to form an alliance with the Greens to have a majority.
The general Scottish public just don't have the appetite for another bitterly divisive independence vote. We need to recover from the pandemic and get Health, Education and the Economy back on track among other vital aspects of life up here.

Alegrias1

Callistemon21

How do you decide if a person who lives in (say) Wales is Scottish?

So you can't be Scottish if you live elsewhere?

My DH was born in England but has lived in Scotland for 60 years or so. He can't call himself Scottish because there is no such thing politically.

I stood behind an American in the queue for an art exhibition in Holyrood who was proudly telling the lassie on the desk that he was Scottish because he had 11% Scottish DNA.

Call yourself Scottish if you like. If you want to decide how the country is run, come and live here.

Aside from this it's a huge practical problem. It's not as if we have ID cards (like for example the Belgians do, which essentially says Walloon/Flemish/Bruxellois).

We could go for whatever version of Scottish nationality will be described, like the last time, in whatever white paper appears (I believe the last time it was 1: Living there automatic, 2: Born there automatic, 3: Born to Scottish parents – you can claim it and it will be granted 4: maybe something about grandparents, I can’t really remember now) but can you imagine how long it would take to compile an electoral register of this sort?

And in any case I’m also persuaded by what could be paraphrased as the ‘no taxation without representation’ argument – if that’s where you live then you’re entitled to take part.

If you live in Scotland or pay taxes in Scotland it seems fair that you can have a vote in Scotland.
Long expats with rosy tinted glasses who've seen 'Braveheart' could really wreck life for us residents if they voted for independence in a fit of nostalgic fervour.

Aveline

Despite Nicola being on TV day after day before the election last year the SNP didn't gain enough of a majority outright and had to form an alliance with the Greens to have a majority.
The general Scottish public just don't have the appetite for another bitterly divisive independence vote. We need to recover from the pandemic and get Health, Education and the Economy back on track among other vital aspects of life up here.

Now Aveline.

You of all people know that the Scottish Parliamentary voting system was set up to prevent any one party having an overall majority. And that the SNP have consistently won more seats in the Parliament than expected because of the number of people who vote SNP in both constituency and list votes. The system is designed to work on consensus.

So the cry that they didn't get a majority is a bit disingenuous, no?

Some people have to leave for various reasons, work, marriage but intended to move back one day to be near family.

I won't call myself Scottish because I'm not.
I'm French/Saxon/Welsh.

I really don't mind what you decide, I was just stating what my born and brought up Scottish exiled friends say.

Alegrias- I didn't set up the voting system for Holyrood nor did I even vote for their being a Scottish Assembly as I feared it would turn into an expensive talking shop which would lead to nothing better for Scotland. My fears were justified.

I didn't set up the voting system for Holyrood

I'm not suggesting you did Aveline but you have a good knowledge of politics in Scotland, which is why I'm sure you know how the voting system is set up. Others reading this might not appreciate that "getting a majority" isn't something that's expected in the Scottish Parliament.

I am Scottish, my family is Scottish as far back as I have traced, I am the first generation living (not born) in England so I am concerned about the hatred against the English being stirred u by the Braveheart morons, and I am sure that Allegrias knows who I mean, and hopefully agrees with me. I am also fed up with the constant statement about Scotland being dragged out of the EU against their will.......well, so was London, so were an awful lot of people, not just a percentage of Scottish voters. Having vented my views on Ms Sturgeon in particular, and the SNP in general, I have to say I do cheer when Ian Blackford stands up and rips in Johnson.....

A few years ago at a wedding a group of people we didn't know were giving us a hard time (behind their hands of course) for being stuck up English because we weren't dancing. They got a "moufae o doric" from me for being eejits. Unfortunately there are morons in every situation.

But they were morons, not Bravehearts. Morons like the English people I used to work with who thought it was funny to call a lassie in her twenties Jock and ask what my husband wore under his kilt.

And we're not going to stop going on about Brexit, sorry. 2/3 of people in this country voted to stay, it made no difference at all.

I also cheer when Penny Mordaunt takes Ian Blackford to bits! I haven't forgotten Charles Kennedy.

This Penny Mordaunt? The one explaining how much better the English Test and Trace system is than the Scottish one? The one that said how well the English NHS had done out of the PPE contracts they offered? The one boasting about how well the vaccine rollout was going in England? (Its behind Scotland of course). The one saying how they always act in the best interests of the Scottish people?

www.bing.com/videos/search?q=penny+mordaunt+ian+blackford&view=detail&mid=ACE289FFD914CD9DA965ACE289FFD914CD9DA965&FORM=VIRE

Somebody needs to tell her that talking in a serious voice isn't the same as having a serious message.

Penny Mordaunt is a name being linked to replacing BJ.
She gets my vote.

Aveline, you sound so familiar.

As for voting rights- British expats all over the world don't have a vote even if resident there for a long time. Even British citizens who have been out of the country no longer get the vote.

After 15 year...

Kali2 good.

So you agree English residents in Scotland should not have the right to vote in the next Independence vote?

You are not alone Aveline in remembering Ian Blackford's treatment of Charlie Kennedy.

Thank you both, I feel my earlier comment has been vindicated after it was ceremoniously dismissed up thread.

Kali2 if they actually live in Scotland and pay taxes etc there, and vote in general elections then I don't see why they shouldn't have a vote in a potential re run of an independence vote.
I object to those vociferous ones who 'love' Scotland and want independence but not enough to actually live there!

I was not saying they should not. But my comment was in response to 'expats voting rights'. So we have 2 groups here, the Scots who no longer live there, and the others who do but are not Scottish.

British expats who live outside Great Britain, and are residents elsewhere and pay taxes there, etc, do not generally have voting rights where they live, and lose the right to vote in the UK after 15 years.

EU citizens who live in the U.K. did not get a vote in the referendum. Just saying.

Could Scotland survive totally on their own?
I mean without EU handouts.
I very much doubt the EU would have them tbh.
And if Scotland does eventually get it’s independence that will pave the way for more troubles in the Catalonia region undoubtedly.

The SNP consider because the win elections against other parties that have for a considerable time to make any impression on voters that all who vote SNP actually want independence. Some consider this to be wrong. However SNP government does invest in garnering votes from the young with all the benefits top
ups, free nursery entitlement, baby boxes, school meals out of term time, free bus travel for 5 to 22 year olds. I am sure there will be others I haven't found. Of course when it comes to votes young folk go SNP. Older folk are basically ignored as many have traditionally voted for the other parties and let's face it, they won't be around long enough to influence the SNP vote.

vegansrock

EU citizens who live in the U.K. did not get a vote in the referendum. Just saying.

Indeed, and I live in Europe and I did (have a vote).