Sue Gray report

Kali2. Have emailed the Speaker.

Re Boris Johnson and Sue Gray report
I have no particular party political axe to grind.
And I certainly find the alleged conduct of people in No.10 to be utterly lacking in rules/guidance observance and in empathy with the people they are supposed to serve.
I have worked in positions where the leader of the organisation was brilliant but flawed. The brilliance achieved things that many people enjoy today that they/we wouldn’t otherwise. The flaws were managed and mitigated by an effective team surrounding and inspired by the leader.
Politics aside, BJ has some notable achievements as PM; there were an awful lot of very senior civil servants and politicians in Team Downing Street; and I just wonder whether we should throw the baby out with the bath water?
I haven’t made my mind up yet. I will be really interested to see the full report, as this taster from Sue Gray (and I’m only commenting on the news reports not from a reading of it) appears to be objective. I’m going to wait for the full report before I reach my personal judgment.



What notable achievements is Johnson responsible for?

TopsyIrene06

*Kali2*. Have emailed the Speaker.

Thank you. Let's home 1000s of others do.

Ilovecheese

What notable achievements is Johnson responsible for?

My apologies. I have offered a personal opinion when I was seeking to offer an objective analysis of the “leadership” question.
What is your opinion of my brilliance/flawed (ie nobody is perfect) experience?

Kali2 I have also emailed the Speaker and my own MP.

I've had to have a break from this fascinating recording.
Ian Blackford and the others were brilliant.
Conclusion - current PM is lacking an essential quality of human nature - compassion. As a 'leader' of a nation and its powers he is a danger to all of us here.

I too have worked with people who were very good (I dont think Johnson is but that's besides the point) but fundamentally flawed with regard to their chatacter. Their flaws always led to disaster.

MayBee70

Petera

Kali2

TopsyIrene06

MayBee70, Kali2. Right behind you. So serious, will write. How dare he.

Please, if anyone here feel strongly that the Jimmy Saville comment was so wrong and slander, please write to The Speaker, Sir Lindsay.

If anyone needs any material, here is the Reuters' fact check

www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-britain-savile-idUSL1N2RP200

Huge thank you for that. I’ve emailed Hoyle and said I expect a reply and want an explanation as to why he’s prepared to make Ian Blackford leave the house for telling the truth and yet allows Johnson to say blatant lies against Keir Starmer. And I’ve asked him to read that link.

Blackford accused Johnson of being untruthful, therefore calling him a liar and is against Parliamentary rules. Johnson did not call Starmer a liar, just alluded to the fiasco when he was in charge of the CPS when Saville was being investigated.
Neither showed themselves in a good light, again like small children in a playground fight instead of adults, both whom should know the rules. Saying that I really don’t know how Johnson can stay in position now. My thoughts are with all those families who lost loved ones, who had to die without family members being by their side, all involved in this parody should have at least the decency to resign. From top to bottom.

Galaxy

I too have worked with people who were very good (I dont think Johnson is but that's besides the point) but fundamentally flawed with regard to their chatacter. Their flaws always led to disaster.

My point was about more than just being good …nevertheless, you were very unlucky then. Or I was very lucky.

Blackford accused Johnson of being untruthful, therefore calling him a liar and is against Parliamentary rules.

Actually at one point he did say he'd told lies. He broke the rules, on purpose. I don't expect he's losing any sleep over that. Here's what he wrote on his FB page:

This is what truth to power looks like in the broken Westminster system. A serial liar is allowed to keep his place, whilst I am forced to leave for telling the truth.

Gaun yersel Ian.

Lincslass that's part of my feelings. it's all so childish.
eg the old joke - teacher in RE class " Who broke down the walls of Jericho? ".
Boris " It wasn't me sir - it was Keir/ Ian / Putin " etc.

I’d already written to my Conservative (red wall) mp about Johnson’s disgusting comment to Starmer about Saville. I’ve now also written to Sir Lindsay Hoyle.

Well yes Johnsons behaviour is that of a child because he was deeply damaged as a child. It's in pretty much every gesture he makes, every statement that he makes.

AviaParva

Ilovecheese

What notable achievements is Johnson responsible for?

My apologies. I have offered a personal opinion when I was seeking to offer an objective analysis of the “leadership” question.
What is your opinion of my brilliance/flawed (ie nobody is perfect) experience?

We're wanting to know what notable achievements you think Johnson has made as PM. Because many of us, I think, are surprised at that judgement.

Many fairly decent ministers have, over the years, resigned when found to be wanting in areas which could cast doubts on their judgement. For far less serious 'misdemeanours' than Johnson, who has lied to parliament and to the nation time after time after time. Including denying that there were parties at No. 10, then denying he was at them...

There is nothing to wait for. Parties he attended have been referred to the police for investigation. He attended those parties. We don't need the police to tell us that, we already know it because of the report.

There is, something wrong, very wrong, with him, indeed.

A newspaper reports that the advantage of the Sue Gray redacted report is civil servants can pay penalty fines anonymously and have their names kept out of the report.

Do I smell a massive civil service/Met police cover up here?

It’s all very unsatisfactory isn’t it? The tories shouting loudly about the need to move on, to allow the government to focus on Ukraine, cost of living etc seem to forget it’s their leader who is getting in the way of that

Hmm. Even the lynch mob must surely weary of this soon?

The trouble with trumped up charges is that the longer they are discussed and raked over, the more evident becomes their lack of substance.

The accusers may squawk and howl as much as they wish but the 'charge' remains as unconvincing and irrelevant as it ever was.

The real outrage was the lockdown itself, the cause of so much misery and cruelty, but they can't protest about that now, because they were demanding ever harsher measures.

umg, this is far, far, far below you.

''The accusers may squawk and howl as much as they wish but the 'charge' remains as unconvincing and irrelevant as it ever was.''

for the first time ever, I shall be blunt. This is just appalling and disgusting- and yes, YOU know it.

No redactions in the report published today, Ug and Gray is very clear in her findings

^There were failures of leadership and judgment by different parts of No 10 and the Cabinet Office at different times. Some of the events should not have been allowed to take place. Other events should not have been allowed to develop as they did*.

Who was the leader at No 10?

^Trumped up charges*

You are Nadine Dorries and I claim my £5...

MSM immediately jumping on 'failures of leadership' but like it or not the report is taking about the civil service not the PM.

The Met might find differently. The report differentiates between the PM's office and what has become a small government department, recognising the demands and complexity of the things put upon ministers and civil servants through these difficult times.

So far, nothing to see move on.

Oops. Formatting fail. I'll tender my resignation immediately...

Well, in the No.10 office complex there is one elected person and 800 civil servants, reporting to other civil servants.

The MSM were so desperate to attack Boris ... they assumed an attack on the CS would finish him off.

But the Gray report specifically pointed out that one of the parties was in the PM’s own flat?