Boris and the Ukraine.

Doodledog

When this is all over (soon, I hope), there should be a root and branch investigation into where Russian money has gone over the past 20 years, what it has paid for and who has benefited. That should include questions about where the money has gone between sanctions being announced and the date they are applied, with explanations of why they couldn't have been applied earlier.

Completely agree.

(I did post a similar post a couple of days ago)

tickingbird this is getting ridiculous.

This is what an unfounded allegation is:
Unfounded: where there is no evidence or proper basis which supports the allegation being made. It might also indicate that the person making the allegation misinterpreted the incident or was mistaken about what they saw. Alternatively, they may not have been aware of all the circumstances.

Your opinion is not fact, it is your opinion. Saying that it is generally accepted that DB is a failed (badly) comedian is unfounded. It’s as simple as that.

Casdon

I don’t understand why you are making unfounded allegations about David Baddiel tickingbird. You may not like him, but that doesn’t mean he is no good. The BBC commissioned him to do a documentary last December, which was excellent. He’s also a mainstay of Horrible Histories, appears on panel shows like Mock the Week etc., does tours etc. etc. Best to drop it I think.

If we see David Badiel’s name on a programme we make sure we watch it.

Obviously we have very poor taste!

I think we already know the power of Russian money.

Russian money was behind the Scottish separatists in 2014 - fortunately they failed to break up the UK.

Russian money funded Brexit in 2016- unfortunately they were successful in dragging the UK out of the European Union.

Russian money got the Putin puppet Trump elected to the US presidency in 2016.

Russian money has funded the Tory Party for a very long time- unfortunately that kind of money talks.

Does anyone still believe that the Russians have the best interests of the United Kingdom or the West at heart?

Oh please just stop it. You're rambling.

Given that the first statement you make is so egregiously bizarre, how can we believe the others? And please stop calling me a separatist, its hugely insulting in today's environment.

In a time where we have people like Zelensky fighting for freedom for his country, making silly claims isn't a good look.

????

I hope that post is not a response to mine volver

The Russia report found that Russia did interfere in the 2014 Scottish referendum on the side of separating Scotland from the rest of the UK. They also actively promoted Alex Salmond by giving him his own show on RT. We are lucky that their efforts failed.

If only they had failed in 2016, we might still be in the EU and accepting refugees unconditionally like all the other EU countries.

Yes it was varian.

I thought about this overnight.

I am I guess what you would call a "Scottish separatist" and I take very great exception indeed to you suggesting that Russian money was behind my campaigning in 2014.

I have no doubt at all that Russian influences were behind some of the more extreme trolling around independence. I also suspect that there was Russian influence behind the destabilising messages around what would happen if there was independence. But to suggest that it was the Russians controlling the people who wanted independence is just unacceptable. Its unacceptable because you are implying that the people who wanted independence were being managed by foreign agents.

I wish people would think about what they are posting before they say ridiculous things.

Alex Salmond is a disgrace.

It should be obvious that I am not suggesting that you personally were in receipt of Russian money volver, only that Russia did interfere in the process on your side of the argument, as has been conclusively proven.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence-russia-attempted-influence-2014-referendum-reveals-report-2919234

www.digit.fyi/report-shows-russian-interference-in-scottish-independence-referendum/

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-russias-involvement-22390827

Russian money was behind the Scottish separatists in 2014

Isn't that what you said?

But it didn't mean that "Scottish separatists" were being supported by Russian money? Then my understanding of the English language must differ from yours.

If what you meant to say was that the referendum was influenced by Russian propaganda, I wouldn't have argued with you. But "Russian money was behind the ...separatists"? Can you not see the difference??

The next time somebody accuses the independence movement of maligning the opposition I'll show them this thread.

And while my dander is still up...

The independence referendum was in 2014, Salmond got his program in 2017. I have no idea of Russia's influence on the man but we weren't all watching RT during the referendum and being influenced by the Russians.

If you prefer I could rephrase that as "Russian money backed the breakup of the UK", which is indisputable.

Well I had a look at the articles. None of them actually said that the Russian propaganda was trying to support the independence side, but I haven't read the report as its behind a paywall, so maybe that does.

What the articles say is that the Russian influence was promoting the fact that the conduct of the vote was irregular, which was obviously an attempt to undermine democracy in this Union. But if you were inclined to believe that the independence movement was a force for evil, I guess you could jump to all sorts of conclusions.

But let's all remember that the winning side tends to re-write history, and changing the narrative to one where the independence supporters are saboteurs and traitors just isn't on.

I have never accused you or anyone else of being a saboteur or traitor.

We all admire President Zelensky who is fighting for the whole of Ukraine including the Crimea and the separatist regions of Donetsk and Luhansk which are backed by Russia.

I have never accused you or anyone else of being a saboteur or traitor.

Oh? I'll just post this again then:

Russian money was behind the Scottish separatists in 2014

Correct. Russian money was used to back separating Scotland from the rest of the UK.

Its clear that you will never acknowledge that it is offensive to say that a perfectly valid and democratic movement was bankrolled by the Russians. Not just that the Russian interfered with it, which they certainly did, but that they backed it. They made it happen. They were in charge.

So that someone with very little understanding of the situation can come along and say that the Russians were the driving force behind it, that those supporting it were either dupes or they were wicked.

I give up.

Correct. There is no doubt that Russia actively backed separating Scotland from the rest of the UK.

Are you really saying it was a Russian plot? That we were all either duped or wicked?

As far as I know volver you were not the driving force behind that movement. You did not instigate it, any more than the Russians did, but it seems that you did back it. You supported it. You were behind it, just as Russia was and Alex Salmond was.

I can agree with you on one point. Alex Salmond is a disgrace.

I did more than "support" it, believe you me. Which is why insinuations that the Russians were driving it are more offensive than you can possibly know.

I’m very impressed with Ben Wallace. Don’t know much about him but he does seem to be a rare anti brexit government minister.

volver

Are you really saying it was a Russian plot? That we were all either duped or wicked?

Your first sentance does not imply the second.

Can't you just stop having a go at other people. You seem determined to make personal attacks today.

Someone suggests that a political campaign I was involved with was funded by the Russians and I'm the one having a go?

Okaaayyy.....