Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

GG13 the waiting lists for gender clinics are huge. Here's a link gic.nhs.uk/appointments/waiting-times/. You will see they are currently offering first appointments to people who contacted them in 2017. Is it really fair to blame a transwoman because she can't getthe treatment she needs?

How is GG's post blaming a transwoman who is having to wait for the treatment needed?.

FWIW GG I agree with you, a man does not become a transwoman until the transition is complete.

trisher

GG13 the waiting lists for gender clinics are huge. Here's a link gic.nhs.uk/appointments/waiting-times/. You will see they are currently offering first appointments to people who contacted them in 2017. Is it really fair to blame a transwoman because she can't getthe treatment she needs?

trisher where did I apportion blame?

Try to imagine that we were only allowed to be women after we had lived as one for a period of time, taken a course of hormone altering medication for a period of time and then undergone major surgery under risk of infection, rejection of transplanted tissue or even death.

That's called empathy

Now some of us women never start periods, never grow breast tissue, grow facial hair, go through early menopause, have mascaline features, cannot conceive a child and all sorts of other problems.

Women. Every single one. Unless they state otherwise.

If the person calling themselves a trans woman has full male genitalia they are not a trans woman they are a man in a dress until such time they have fully transitioned and had gender reassignment surgery
If that isn't blame I fully apologise. I suppose you could call it prejudice. But it doesn't really matter what you call it. It's judgemental and it's judgemental about something the transwoman has absolutely no control over.
A litte sympathy for the long waitong list might be in order

Imagine that every female person and male person could present themself however they like, without any reference to 'cultural norms'.
Wouldn't that be a nicer, kinder thing to aim for?

We're going down the rabbit hole now. Blaming people for medical wait times.

FarNorth

Imagine that every female person and male person could present themself however they like, without any reference to 'cultural norms'.
Wouldn't that be a nicer, kinder thing to aim for?

Well, that's the end goal isn't it?

So what happens if trans people still exist and want the physical features they weren't born with?

Can we accept them then?

3nanny6 For what it's worth I think your GC is very lucky to have those who are open minded in their life and the only advice I could or would give is to do exactly as you are doing now.
I hope that one day, people will just be able to express themselves however they like without any negative perceptions or pre-judgment.

Anyone been over on the M&S thread?

Its a hoot.

trisher

Doodledog I know lesbians who have been abused and pressurised by other lesbians who were not transwomen. The reason women's refuges began risk assessing was because they realised some women were dangerous. Does this mean all women are? of course not. Anyone whatever their sex, whatever their gender forcing anyone to have sex, or abusing or threatening them, in an attempt to intimidate them, is wrong. But it isn't limited to transwomen and not all transwomen are abusive and threatening. There are threatening and abusive people about but we don't avoid everyone because of them.

It’s a convenient get-out to always say that because some women are [insert behaviour of choice] no women should be protected from that behaviour, isn’t it? You apply it to violent criminals, sex offenders and now lesbians. You really don’t like women, do you?

volver

Anyone been over on the M&S thread?

Its a hoot.

I didn't realise the model was supposed to be male. I just thought it was an ugly dress.

FarNorth

Imagine that every female person and male person could present themself however they like, without any reference to 'cultural norms'.
Wouldn't that be a nicer, kinder thing to aim for?

It would be so much simpler all round, but then the autogynephiles wouldn’t be able to get off on ‘passing’ as women, so don’t hold your breath.

I’ve had a look at the M and S thread. Didn’t find it amusing - feel disappointed

You really don't like women, do you?

Is there any need to make personal comments? Can't we stay focused on the topic rather than resorting to personal insults?

Yes, apologies Iam64. Its not funny, you're right.

Its disappointing.

GagaJo

We're going down the rabbit hole now. Blaming people for medical wait times.

I am not blaming anyone for anything Gagajo just pointing out the medically obvious fact that if a human being has a penis and testicles i.e. male genitalia then they are a man.

If you know or can prove different please post a link to the evidence

volver some platforms haven't set any limits yet on how its acceptable to talk about trans people.

Given the rate of escalation I've noticed, even just over the last 6 months, that's going to have to change eventually.

No one is going to want to be the last "safe space" for discrimination

GagaJo

*You really don't like women, do you?*

Is there any need to make personal comments? Can't we stay focused on the topic rather than resorting to personal insults?

It’s neither a personal comment nor an insult. It is an observation based on the number of times ‘oh but women do that too’ is used to defend the indefensible.

No VS. Quite. And we oldies already have the unfortunate label for being behind the times.

GagaJo

No VS. Quite. And we oldies already have the unfortunate label for being behind the times.

I know right

If it helps, I like nice people

VioletSky

If someone wouldn't date an overweight person, I wouldn't question that that is the truth. I would question if they were saying that to an overweight person..

That's the difference.

OK so you (blanket statement) would not ever date a trans person? Was it necessary to say it when you could just not do it?

It's quite a big difference if you think about it

Well. I told the truth when I said I had never been attracted to overweight men. That of course doesn't mean quite the same as "I would never date an overweight man" because I might have, if I'd met one I liked.

Dickens I think I can see why you have responded as you have but, that's not what I was saying...

You were being honest and trying to make a point

It's just that is a point that doesn't need making out there in general life though does it? So it's not really necessary to say

Anyone that I don't find attractive someone else will so why would I make any demographic feel bad about themselves by stating what I don't find attractive? Why would I make any 1 individual feel bad by saying it to their face? I certainly am not wonderful or beautiful enough that anyone else is beneath me in attractiveness anyway.

We can keep our personal preferences to ourselves and instead of saying "i would never date xyz" simply say, we all have the freedom to chose who we have a relationship with

I'm saying

I won't ever agree with people saying "I won't date people who..."

I agree people get to choose who they have relationships with

Same thing but a different approach

Doodledog

GagaJo

You really don't like women, do you?

Is there any need to make personal comments? Can't we stay focused on the topic rather than resorting to personal insults?

It’s neither a personal comment nor an insult. It is an observation based on the number of times ‘oh but women do that too’ is used to defend the indefensible.

'An observation' that just happens to be rude. We could all make 'observations' like that but manage to restrain.

This is one of the reasons these threads derail because of posters unable to distinguish between discussion and getting personal.