Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

VioletSky

I've explained several times why I don't agree and don't think it's a good use of my time to go over it again

So why bother replying to my post of 23.01?

doodledog good point

paddyann54

I dont know anyone who has transitioned from male to female but I know 3 young people who were born and raised as girls who are now boys.
Young men.. though none have reached the surgery stage so I imagine if they use mens toilets they would have to use the cubicle
.I've never heard any complaints about trans men in mens spaces ...but then Ive never heard personal complaints about trans women either .
Nor have I heard anyone online or in the press saying there were problems with trans men in womans spaces.
I think its an urban myth that has taken root and is used to attack the trans community
.Live and let live and understand that life has always changed ,mainly with opposition.We're all old enough to remember gay bashing ,outrage at same sex marriages etc.This too will pass in time ,its mainly older generations who close their minds to change .In a few yar ,supposing we're still here it will be normal

Well said

Here is an interesting article about a biological male who has been given a Woman of the Year award.

It's worth reading all of it.

www.dailywire.com/news/usa-today-names-women-of-the-year-heres-one-of-them

Nor have I heard anyone online or in the press saying there were problems with trans men in womans spaces.

The only issue with transmen (females) being in female spaces is if they look convincing enough as men that they cause alarm.

I’ve just read something on here which basically says, If it’s happened I always know someone it’s happened to. If I haven’t heard if it, it hasn’t happened.
Wonderful! ??

Keir Starmer says that he agrees with the existence of women's safe spaces ---- and also transwomen (men) are women.
?

FarNorth

Keir Starmer says that he agrees with the existence of women's safe spaces ---- and also transwomen (men) are women.
?

Which makes him a liar, deluded, ignorant of basic biology or scared of the trans activists (who do not represent the wishes of all trans). Imagine the uproar from GN on the politics threads if Boris had said that. ??

I must say I’m nostalgic for the days when ‘gender’ was largely used in relation to the foreign language nouns - M, F, N - that I had to learn.

Paddyann54, exactly. Urban myths whipped up to get feminists into a frenzy and distract them from real challenges to equal rights.

Mollygo

FarNorth

Keir Starmer says that he agrees with the existence of women's safe spaces ---- and also transwomen (men) are women.
?

Which makes him a liar, deluded, ignorant of basic biology or scared of the trans activists (who do not represent the wishes of all trans). Imagine the uproar from GN on the politics threads if Boris had said that. ??

Which of Boris' multitude of lies would you like us to start with? A bit of an own goal there Mollygo.

I'd say that makes KS all four Mollygo, no wonder there are women not wanting to vote Labour.

Me too Witzend and that was hard enough wasn't it.

I started this thread so I feel justified in adding this.

There are a couple of trans threads going today. We're seeing comments like "why is is always the big muscular guys who want to transition, eh? Answer me that!" or "I saw a person I thought was trans who wasn't very well dressed or made up, how sad it was".

So I still don't know the way I feel about trans women in sport, or shared toilets, or self ID, or any of that kind of thing, but I know there is a lot of prejudice out there for people who are just trying to live their lives.

I’m not defending those comments, but you also see threads about how women should show their curves instead of wearing baggy clothing, and whether women should be spending money on beauty treatments in a recession. It may be more about aesthetics than prejudice.

That's true Doodledog, but it would be disingenuous () to think that the comments about trans people are not informed by the fact that they are transitioning.

If a woman had been described as looking like something from the Les Dawson show, lots of women on here would be rightly angry. But say it about a trans woman, and that's acceptable, apparently.

volver, the thing is though, that gender critical people with those types of opinions just don't notice the slight, small, or average sized trans women. They fit the patriarchal standard of what a woman should be and therefore pass easily.

Exactly GagaJo.

FarNorth

Keir Starmer says that he agrees with the existence of women's safe spaces ---- and also transwomen (men) are women.
?

Wow Kier Starmer and I agree about something. Now there's a first!!!

I really don't understand exactly what gender critical feminists want done.
The idea of inspections to see who is a proper woman scares me. Would it mean in order to be certan of passing women will have to dress in a certain way. How on earth would that move us forward to a gender free society?

I think that is large part of why these discussions make me uncomfortable volver because those comments just don't get called out by people who do say they don't descriminate.

It's a bit of an, the enemy of nyenemy is my friend situation

Yet we are all feminists here and it should be us against the problem and not us against each other

The problems (and I do see and understand there are some) seem to me to be very solvable, there seems to be a lot of ways to make everyone comfortable yet, that is not happening and I struggle to understand why

trisher people should be able to present any way they like without claiming not to be the biological sex they are.

We have managed reasonably well, so far, with female and male facilities relying on people's honesty so that genital inspections have not been needed.
We could still do that if there is not a culture of believing that sex is malleable.
Otherwise, we need a different type of facility to protect everyone's privacy.

FarNorth, there have also been gender fluid people. They've just not been part of a political movement before. They had to hide and stay in the shadows.

They're the current threat to life as we know it, as feminists and gay activists once were.

Remember the anti-gay rhetoric? Or the anti-feminist propaganda?

GAGA
Which of Boris' multitude of lies would you like us to start with? A bit of an own goal there Mollygo. Not an own goal. I’ve never said BJ wasn’t a liar, but are you supporting Keira’s lies because they are fewer?

Yes, some men manage to resemble women well enough that they are not noticed. So what? They are still men.

Yes, some women do look like a Les Dawson character. So what? They are still women.

Keira? I'm going to assume that's a typo

GagaJo gender fluid people are still female or male, however they choose to present themselves.
What is your difficulty with understanding that?