Violence at Stop violence against women march

These 3 women are world track cyclists. They're all competing in the same race and same age bracket and so it should be a level competitive field. One of them is far heavier, more muscular and taller than the others. One of them was born a man. Which one won?

Chewbacca is that transwoman Veronica Ivy, formerly Rachel McKinnon, in the middle? I know people’s opinions on her are divided, she’s lost out to women in some races. Ross Tucker and Linda Blade are sports coaches, both are strongly against transwomen competing against women in any sport. RT, in particular, writes very well on the issue.

I’ve been thinking since I last posted, I know there’s not many men on Gransnet, and to my recollection, none of them have ever posted on any of the transgender threads. I wonder why not?

Got it one one grannydarkhair. Divisive is the word:

In an interview with Sky News, former cycling champion Victoria Hood said, “It is not complicated. The science is there and it says that it is unfair. The male body, which has been through male puberty, still retains its advantage; that doesn’t go away. I have sympathy with them. They have the right to do sport but not a right to go into any category they want.”

In a press release in response to Hood’s comments, McKinnon denounced her for having
“an irrational fear of trans women.”
It’s not the first time a competitor has spoken out about their frustrations with having to race against her.

“It was an unfair race, and I accepted that when I pinned on the number, and I tried to do my best to overcome the unfairness,” said Jennifer Wagner-Assali, who took bronze behind McKinnon last year but did not compete on Saturday. “I do feel that hard-fought freedoms for women’s sport are being eroded.
“If we continue to let this happen, there will be men’s sports and co-ed sports, but there won’t be any women’s sports.”

Karolinksa Institute in Sweden conducted research that suggested testosterone suppression for transgender women has little effect on reducing muscle strength.

Caitlin Jenner is reported as saying Lia Thomas took it easy in the race s/he won, to avoid breaking the record. C Jenner supports Lia but doesn’t believe s/he should compete in women’s swimming

Caitlin Jenner is correct. Lia Thomas swims short distance races with the energy saving technique used to swim longer distances. Observe the feet. Lia kicks every other stroke, the females in the race kick on every stroke. Lia is winning races using upper body strength only.

Correct Rosie51; men have 66% more upper body strength and 50% lower body strength than women.

He wins by cheating.
I can’t get over the ease with which Lia’s name converts to Liar. Do you think it was a Freudian slip on his part?

More likely to be his hubris and arrogance Mollygo He knew he would never be an elite athlete as a male and the TRAs, and their allies would see him as a poster trans to their cause.

trisher

I don't think it is ever fair to blame the admin on GN. They are just doing what they are paid for. It isn't personal and shouldn't be taken as such. I've had whole threads disappear.
The only thing I want to know is why does it always happen when I've gone off to do something else. I just have to try and imagine what's been said!

Glad I didn't see all of them

Chewbacca

More likely to be his hubris and arrogance Mollygo He knew he would never be an elite athlete as a male and the TRAs, and their allies would see him as a poster trans to their cause.

It certainly seems like that to me.

In the end (unless someone sensible comes along and puts a stop to this) I can see two teams forming - the A team (men) and the B team (women and men who can't compete with the A team). As the men in the B team are likely to beat the women, the whole sport will become male-dominated.

This is the sort of thing that could spread to other areas too:

Gender pay gap? Oh look! Our top male earners are on an average of £X pa, but Brian and Trevor in the female earners group are on £X-1, so that's a big improvement since the last measure when Sarah and Emily were the top women on £X-5. We can now record the positive figures.

Women in the Cabinet? Well yes, the stats weren't great before, but in the last reshuffle we moved Colin to Head of Trans, and Graham is overseeing the Dept of Gender and Education, so it's balanced the books a bit having women in those posts. Isn't it great to see how Graham has equalised the performances of boys and girls now they are based on gender instead of sex?

Oh, and Dave's been amazing at dealing with the women's pension scandal! Once she started including transwomen in the figures it's made such a difference. What do you mean, some women weren't allowed to join private pension schemes? They are all in the WOO scheme for Women Of Old - no, there's nothing funny about the acronym . . .

Absolutely brilliant post @ 16.15 Doodledog; that's the future. Crime stats can then be skewed to "prove" that male to female violence has reduced but, coincidentally, female on female violence has increased. Especially now that Those Who Know Such Things are adamant that women are physically capable of raping a woman.

Doodledog Excellent post! Sadly there are females that think all your examples are to be celebrated and encouraged. There is nothing that can be taken away from women to give to men that goes too far for them. And then they claim not to support the patriarchy ?

“I’ve been thinking since I last posted, I know there’s not many men on Gransnet, and to my recollection, none of them have ever posted on any of the transgender threads. I wonder why not?”

It’s not an issue to men is it, in fact the whole “trans” issue is of no interest to most men. A trans person is no threat to men either in competitions or personal safety, many men would see them as a object of amusement or ignore them completely as they do with gay people.

Great post Doodledog

I live in hope that one of the anti terf group (as wrongly categorised by the activists and their support group) will acknowledge that it isn’t all rosy for women

Thanks Chewbacca. Excellent post. I’ve added it here incase it was missed earlier

Absolutely brilliant post @ 16.15 Doodledog;that's the future.
Crime stats can then be skewed to "prove" that male to female violence has reduced but, coincidentally, female on female violence has increased. Especially now that Those Who Know Such Things are adamant that women are physically capable of raping a woman.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-27022-fallon-fox-before-after.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-658776-eq1nohkw4aaz3-y.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-330898-eq1nohkw4aaz3-y.jpg

I was unsure whether to post this here or on the thread regarding trans athletes but, as it refers to violence, this might be the most appropriate place:

Boyd Burton was an American heterosexual man. In 2006 he underwent gender reassignment surgery to become a trans woman and called himself Fallon Fox. In 2013 they became a professional fighter and, in 2014, entered into a fighting competition with Tammika Brents, a well established professional women's fighter. Brents suffered concussion, an orbital bone fracture, and seven staples to the head in the 1st round. Brents said after the fight "I've fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can't answer whether it's because she was born a man or not because I'm not a doctor. I can only say, I've never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right," she stated. "Her grip was different, I could usually move around in the clinch against other females but couldn't move at all in Fox's clinch.

Fallon Fox only fought in 6 competitions, of which they won 5.

Chewbacca there is actually a video which made me feel sick, Fallon Fox was enjoying every second of pounding Brents' face, while she was pinned under him on the deck.. The referee had to pull Fox off from Brents. Fox tweeted how much they enjoyed smashing Brents' face. Something Fox shares with some other men that hate women.

I'd read about Fox being challenged, post fight, about why he'd continued to hit Brents after she was on the canvas and clearly very badly injured. Apparently he said "She enjoyed it".

I wonder where the allies are?

Wow ‘she enjoyed it’. Now where have we heard that before

Those are exactly my fears, Doodledog. Never mind sports, what about in the workplace? Think of all the effort that’s been put into getting women’s representation as MP’s up to 50% ending up with 25% women and 25% trans women. Same on the boards of companies and so on.

Katie59 I’ve just posted on another thread about how I was delighted at my 19 year old g’son’s comment about LT.
I think the same as you about it being something heterosexual men don’t give much thought to, unlike gay men who do as they’re saddened by young boys being told they’re trans if they display any signs of opposite sex stereotyping. Eg. wee boys who want to play with dolls, wear “girly” clothes, etc. Instead of just letting a child do things like these, parents who are horrified at the thought of a gay son, may push them towards being trans girls. In other words, homophobia or “transing the gay away”. The majority of children who display signs of opposite sex stereotyping grow out of these wants/habits themselves if left alone and that applies to both sexes.
But then, homosexual men (and women) are told they’re homophobic because they are not attracted to/do not want to have sex with transmen (and transwomen) respectively.

I like Arty Morty a gay Canadian man. He is a gentle soul who always says he's so glad his mother was a strong liberated woman. He was a very feminine little boy who these days would likely be pressured into transgendering. His mother was perfectly happy with the son she had, and totally accepting when he confirmed he was gay. It's no joke about 'transing the gay away'. Iran is the transgender capital of the world, why?...... because homosexuality is illegal, punishable by up to death. Transsexuals who have full reassignment surgery are permitted to register as the opposite sex, and then have a relationship with someone of the same biological sex.

My 2 gays neighbours want nothing to do with the trans movement; they won't attend the gay Pride rally in our nearest city for fear of violence breaking out - they're the most peaceable and quiet of lads. Pity when gay men and lesbian women are the people who originally set up the Pride movement but it's been hijacked by a small, but violently vocal, minority.

I can only speak for myself, Katie59, but I have not contributed to any of the threads dealing with trans issues because, first I do not know any trans people personally, although I have a distant cousin who is a trans man, and second because I would almost certainly be accused by some of the regulars of being an arrogant, mansplaining member of the patriarchy.

However, I have read all the threads as they have unravelled, and am certainly much better informed on a subject to which I had not given any thought except in literary contexts such as Gautier's Mademoiselle de Maupin. For what it is worth, I fully understand that many if not most women, as the word is commonly understood, feel the need for places where they can be sure that there are no men, and I support that point of view.

Men do not have the same need because they do not, being generally bigger and stronger, feel threatened by trans men. I certainly don't feel threatened, though I can imagine the occasional embarrassment.

For what it is worth, the women who want safe places, and who do not want to have their descriptor noun debased, have my full support.

On behalf of women (females)
everywhere . . . well almost everywhere, thank you grumppa.