I think this will happen more and more

That about your post at 20:17

. I think you are quite assertive yourself.

I did all the courses. Long time ago.

I am not interested in patronising you or not patronising you for that matter volver. You think it sounds like hate I dont agree.

Women should compete with women
Men should compete against men
Trans should have their own category in all sports
And no one taking drugs should compete at all

BlueBelle that’s exactly my opinion ?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10445679/Lia-Thomas-UPenn-teammate-says-trans-swimmer-doesnt-cover-genitals-locker-room.html

"'It's definitely awkward because Lia still has male body parts and is still attracted to women,' "

Asking questions and getting clarification is not my definition of "lecturing"

But it's the way you tell 'em!

I have no problem with anyone competing in any sport that they excel at provided that the competitors are all broadly within the same age/weight/approximate height/muscle structure/bone density/metabolism range. When you have someone like McKinnon competing in the same cycle race as Orwick, it's hardly a fair race.

Of these 3 cyclists, one is a trans woman and quite obviously taller, heavier, more muscular and stronger. Which one won?

It's just become so uncomfortable to discuss because it looks like this.

Newcomers to discussion showing even an ounce of trans acceptance must be immediately pounced on before their views are even stated.

Trans accepting people on these discussions must have their thoughts deliberately misunderstood and be accused of awful things like the discerning silent observer (and I have no doubt there are many) can't see through that immediately. Moderate views are also the wrong sort of views. We must use any means to shut down common sense arguments.

It's not just trans women who aren't the right sort of women.

Anyone supportive of tran women is no longer the right sort of women.

Trans men? when they are mentioned... Well we ought to ignore them except to say, they are women really... But they also go in the wrong sort of women box because, there are only right women and wrong women now. Right women, wrong women and men who cannot be trusted anyway and don't get an opinion.

Trans people have started a war by existing. Maybe they could have a little more acceptance if they would just denounce those with extreme views instead of just trying to quietly live their lives as if that's proof enough they are harmless, law-abiding citizens.

Also, we must get it all correct straight away. By this we mean, nothing can change. At all. Ever.

All trans people cannot change sex, therefor they must stay in the box they were placed in with the labels we agree with. Ie, trans women are men and trans men are (the wrong sort of) women. We have no problem how they dress and what sort of pronouns they use but we reserve the right to point at them if they don't look right and not use their pronouns when it suits us. No spaces can be created to accommodate them. All the medical terms about anatomy are strictly devided into male and female and trans people either deal with being the gender we tell them they are or don't get the help they need. As women we are defined by words, not deeds, not how we express ourselves and our gender and not individuality

Of course we do accept trans people though. That's obvious right?

Agree with you BlueBelle.

Transmen arent ignored by gender critical feminists. The exact opposite.
I dont have a gender.

Transwomen aren't any sort of women VS.

Here are 2 Lia Thomas pics.

But it's the way you tell 'em!

Asking for it, was I?

Actually it looks like if you dare to refer to the scientific fact that it is impossible to change your sex, you're a transphobe.
If you state there are only two sexes you're a transphobe.
If you say you don't have a gender identity you're a transphobe.
If you question people like Lia Thomas, a failed male swimmer who identifies as a transwoman to then become number 1, smashing the women's records, then you're a transphobe.
Think people with penises have no place on female wards, prisons, refuges, communal changing rooms, then you're a transphobe.
Think it's unfair that 'Business Woman of the year' type awards (categories created because females weren't regarded equally with their male counterparts) are awarded to trans identified males, then you are a transphobe.
Think females shouldn't have their terms eg woman, mother etc replaced by 'pregnant people' 'menstruators' 'cervix havers' against their will, then you're a transphobe.
Say sex and gender are totally different things and many people don't have any gender then you're a transphobe.
If you say anything should just be for females, then you're a transphobe. And the worst of it this is all said by people who claim to be so kind.
As for All the medical terms about anatomy are strictly devided into male and female and trans people either deal with being the gender we tell them they are or don't get the help they need. Well medical terms that apply to sexual differences about our biology are divided into the two sexes because there are only two sexes. I don't think anyone has told any trans person what gender they have to be, especially as many of us do not have one. They can have any gender they want to join and display, aren't we told there are 100 or more genders? Unfortunately they can't choose what sex they are, that was determined at conception where biology rules not man.

Brilliantly articulated Rosie51; you've absolutely nailed it.

More energy than I have tonight. I got tired after two sentences .

Rosie51 ?

Well said, Rosie

Excellent Rosie! ???

volver If you think some of the posts on here are hateful, (I don’t), then for your own sake, please don’t participate in any transgender threads on Twitter. And if women are hateful in their comments, then whilst I may not condone it, I certainly understand it.
Transactivists have been saying for years “TWAW”, “NO DEBATE” and to a much lesser extent “TMAM”. When GC voices argued against them, they were called transphobic, bigots, fascists, Nazis, told they were “cancelled”, told they were allied to white right-wing American Christian groups, etc, etc. They were threatened with physical violence (which has now happened on numerous occasions), threatened they’d be raped to death, threatened they’d be raped with barbed-wire covered baseball bats (lots of photos of these tweets are to be found).
When GC women said that gender self-identification could lead to predatory men in what should be safe single-spaces, and that this could be potentially dangerous, they were told, repeatedly, “THAT’LL NEVER HAPPEN”. Well guess what?
But because of Keira Bell, Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Kathleen Stock, Jo Phoenix, Maya Forstater, JKRowling, Graham Linehan, the Nolan report on Stonewall, the “capture” of most of the major UK political parties, etc., more and more people are beginning to take an interest in the transgender issue/s.
Other names that have had an effect but for completely different reasons are Karen White, Aimee Challoner, Monica Sulley.
Because so many people are interested in sports, then Lia Thomas (who was on a drug regime for at least a year prior to competing against women. Not sure what, no article I’ve read has said, but I’m assuming a female hormone/testosterone blocker [if such a drug exists]) has sparked off huge threads on Twitter and masses of written material in the MSM, with many contributors admitting that they’d never thought trans issues would affect them. The opinions of Sharon Davies and Daley Thompson, both strongly against mixed sex sport, are influencing people.
And in answer to who the transman boxer should box against? As I am strongly against transwomen competing against women, then I’d be a hypocrite if I said that he should be allowed to compete against men. But, because of the affects of the testosterone that he’s been taking since 2013, the idea of him fighting a woman horrifies me. So, I honestly don’t know.

Rosie51 ???

????? Well said grannydarkhair. You've neatly summarised the whole issue but there will still be the enablers who attempt to defend the indefensible.

grannydarkhair

volver If you think some of the posts on here are hateful, (I don’t), then for your own sake, please don’t participate in any transgender threads on Twitter. And if women are hateful in their comments, then whilst I may not condone it, I certainly understand it.
Transactivists have been saying for years “TWAW”, “NO DEBATE” and to a much lesser extent “TMAM”. When GC voices argued against them, they were called transphobic, bigots, fascists, Nazis, told they were “cancelled”, told they were allied to white right-wing American Christian groups, etc, etc. They were threatened with physical violence (which has now happened on numerous occasions), threatened they’d be raped to death, threatened they’d be raped with barbed-wire covered baseball bats (lots of photos of these tweets are to be found).
When GC women said that gender self-identification could lead to predatory men in what should be safe single-spaces, and that this could be potentially dangerous, they were told, repeatedly, “THAT’LL NEVER HAPPEN”. Well guess what?
But because of Keira Bell, Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Kathleen Stock, Jo Phoenix, Maya Forstater, JKRowling, Graham Linehan, the Nolan report on Stonewall, the “capture” of most of the major UK political parties, etc., more and more people are beginning to take an interest in the transgender issue/s.
Other names that have had an effect but for completely different reasons are Karen White, Aimee Challoner, Monica Sulley.
Because so many people are interested in sports, then Lia Thomas (who was on a drug regime for at least a year prior to competing against women. Not sure what, no article I’ve read has said, but I’m assuming a female hormone/testosterone blocker [if such a drug exists]) has sparked off huge threads on Twitter and masses of written material in the MSM, with many contributors admitting that they’d never thought trans issues would affect them. The opinions of Sharon Davies and Daley Thompson, both strongly against mixed sex sport, are influencing people.
And in answer to who the transman boxer should box against? As I am strongly against transwomen competing against women, then I’d be a hypocrite if I said that he should be allowed to compete against men. But, because of the affects of the testosterone that he’s been taking since 2013, the idea of him fighting a woman horrifies me. So, I honestly don’t know.

Thanks for your sincere concern. The fact that Twitter is really hateful doesn't excuse a little bit of...antipathy on GN.

Brilliantly put Rosie51 and grannydarkhair.

Chewbacca
????? Well said grannydarkhair. You've neatly summarised the whole issue but there will still be the enablers who attempt to defend the indefensible

Chewbacca I wish you weren’t right.

And all shall have prizes.