Ukraine - contd

I don’t think it’s possible for anybody to write a much less measured response than ‘ Biden would do the world a favour if he just stopped making speeches.’ as Zoejory did. I also don’t think she meant ‘just do some research’, I think she meant ‘Google’.

DaisyAnne
Can you explain why every American commentator is rushing around trying to cover up his blunders.

BoadiceaJones

*DaisyAnne*-*"Turkey shoot" and what you appear to be reading online".

How does that make me appear American? And what I read online : Guardian, Sydney Morning Herald, Washington Post, NYT, NZ Herald.

Does that help?

It made me think you might be and therefore coming from a different angle. It wasn't a criticism; I just wondered.

DaisyAnne

What "emotive language"?

You talk of Biden as if he's some hero, DaisyAnne. You suggest he's standing up to Putin. Forgive me if I'm wrong but USA is not being bombed to bits, unlike Ukraine. Macron is less than pleased. The White House is less than pleased. The UK is less than pleased.

Biden's words are dangerous.

And thank you, BoadiceaJones. It is indeed a worry when the leader of the USA uses such language.

I'm glad Joe Biden spoke what a lot of us a thinking.
A bully needs to be told they are and not appeased .
We have an English family friend fighting in Mariupol nothing has been heard of him for the past 3 weeks by his Ukranian wife.

BoadiceaJones

And Zoejoey - thank you for your sensible and measured responses. Biden must have been out of his mind to call, in the presence of the entire world, for Putin to be replaced. The Russian rat is an utterly medacious, amoral, cold-blooded murderer, but that does not mean than any other nation can dictate the government of another sovereigh state.

So, talking of "emotive language" Biden clearly isn't "out of his mind" and has been doing an excellent job.

Certainly a very different on to the one his predecessor would have done. By now, I imagine, Ukraine would have been handed over with help from the Trump himself.

I think everyone who can say, has said that regime change is not America's or Biden's intention.

It appears that Putin still has the support of the majority of Russians. I read a couple of days ago that around 70% of the population think he is doing a good job. The problem of course is that they believe his nonsense that’s he’s ridding Ukraine of neo-Nazis.

Until Russians eventually learn the truth about the horrors inflicted on their neighbouring country, Putin, I fear will remain in power despite what the increasingly senile-sounding Biden might claim.

Zoejory

DaisyAnne

What "emotive language"?

You talk of Biden as if he's some hero, DaisyAnne. You suggest he's standing up to Putin. Forgive me if I'm wrong but USA is not being bombed to bits, unlike Ukraine. Macron is less than pleased. The White House is less than pleased. The UK is less than pleased.

Biden's words are dangerous.

And thank you, BoadiceaJones. It is indeed a worry when the leader of the USA uses such language.

I didn't "talk of Biden as if he's some hero". I stated facts anyone can find. I don't do setting politicians up as some kind of God. However, as you have raised it, I think his and America's efforts under his Presidency have been courageous and an incredible amount of hard work has been done. Should you want a hero, I would suggest you look at President Zelenskyy.

"The UK is less than pleased" You don't do facts, do you? All the UK? All the newspapers who would like to reinstate a man who behaves in a criminal fashion back as President of the USA are obviously happy to talk this up. After all, it takes attention off the Hire and Fire debacle and the amazingly tin-eared Spring Economic Statement. It really doesn't constitute the whole UK though, does it?

JenniferEccles

It appears that Putin still has the support of the majority of Russians. I read a couple of days ago that around 70% of the population think he is doing a good job. The problem of course is that they believe his nonsense that’s he’s ridding Ukraine of neo-Nazis.

Until Russians eventually learn the truth about the horrors inflicted on their neighbouring country, Putin, I fear will remain in power despite what the increasingly senile-sounding Biden might claim.

It's interesting (if macabre) that he is playing the Nazi card. From what I heard, listening to a Putin expert, Putin feels Russia was never given the credit they deserved for their part in the war against Hitler. Strange that he wants credit from people whose politics he dispises but apparently, he does.

I think people certainly recognised what the Russian army had done when they marched into Germany and, it appears, they haven't changed.

This over-reaction to Biden’s off the cuff remark will not, short or long term affect what Putin does. His apparent intention is to divide Ukraine as Korea is divided.

We shall see, as this will almost certainly be resisted by the Ukrainian population.

Zalensky has said that before any peace negotiation is finalised he will seek affirmation from the populace.

Biden said were that Putin can't stay in power. Putin has been telling his people for months that the West despise them and want to take over their country. And now the "leader of the free world" has made suggestion that Putin should be removed from power. It's played right into Putin's hands, surely that's obvious to everyone?

Whatever Putin does or doesn't do, the blame is squarely at Putin's door, we can't blame Biden or NATO or anyone else. But with such high stakes the POTUS needs to be diplomatic, not just "say what we're all thinking".

Biden said that...

It does seem that some have forgotten Biden has more than one audience and that one of them is Ukraine. Perhaps it isn't Biden who has the problem.

I whole heartedly agree volver.

volver I do agree that it was an unfortunate off script remark, but I thought the whole tone of the speech excellent.

It is what Europe and in particular Ukraine wants to hear.

Yes, now is not the time for inflammatory remarks, but in the short or long term these remarks will make no difference. Biden was merely saying what so many in the world think, about all the authoritarian dictators, and indeed the authoritarian populists.

WWM2 I agree that the rest of the speech was excellent. But there is no glossing over what he said about Putin not remaining in power, whether we agree with him or not.

It was an inflammatory thing to say, no excuses, and he should have known better.

If he had said something like "Authoritarianism is not acceptable in the modern world", we'd all have agreed. Saying the leader of another country should no longer be in power is inflammatory and is just not on unless we are trying to achieve regime change. Which is a whole different scenario to the one we are in now.

DaisyAnne ?

Yes you are right, and as I said it was unfortunate, but I honestly don’t think that it will make a fart-icle of difference to Ukraine.

What we have to focus on is the evil being done by Putin, and not a mis+spoken word by the leader of the free world.

It is so important not to over-react at such a difficult time.

It is absolutely important that when faced with such evil we remain a closed and tight force letting nothing divide us.

If you listen to Trump and his speeches lately that is exactly what he is trying to do, so typical of the populist agenda.

Putin is in the wrong, no one in their right mind could agree with what he is doing.

POTUS insinuating that he (Putin) should not remain in power was a careless use of words at best, or at worst gives President Putin carte blanche to do as he pleases as the West wants to unseat him.

I think it’s a dead cert that the only part of the speech that the Russian media will air will be that small snippet, showing the Russian people that their leader is acting in their best interests against the war mongers of the Western World.

GrannyGravy13

Putin is in the wrong, no one in their right mind could agree with what he is doing.

POTUS insinuating that he (Putin) should not remain in power was a careless use of words at best, or at worst gives President Putin carte blanche to do as he pleases as the West wants to unseat him.

I think it’s a dead cert that the only part of the speech that the Russian media will air will be that small snippet, showing the Russian people that their leader is acting in their best interests against the war mongers of the Western World.

Putin totally controls the m s media in Russia, so it would make little difference. They only ever hear what Putin wants them to hear.

Yes, he mis-spoke. It will make little difference to the course of the war, that we are by-proxy fighting.

Do not let such a small incident divide, focus on the good bits of the speech, of which there were many.

Leader of one powerful country says leader of another powerful country should be removed from power.

People in the second country will be shown the leader of the first country saying their own leader should be removed from power.

That's not a small incident.

volver

Leader of one powerful country says leader of another powerful country should be removed from power.

People in the second country will be shown the leader of the first country saying their own leader should be removed from power.

That's not a small incident.

That’s how I feel volver

I think dismissing this as a small incident is unwise.

Which is why the White House has been backtracking/explaining over the last 24 hours.

I’m not saying it was, but it should not be used as a stick to beat Biden with in these so difficult times.

Like it or not he is the leader of the free world at the moment, and assuming we wish it to remain free, he is entitled to our support.

But as I keep saying, it will make little difference to the outcome in Ukraine.

GranyGravy
I have a friend in Siberia. English TEFL. This piece by Bidon is practically on a loop on Russian TV. It’s played right in to Putins hands: see, I told you what they wanted, they want to rule us
Thank god the more compos mantis are busy trying to mop up the mess. But an awful lot of people are buying Putins message.

The White House nee Biden recognise the boo boo. That is all we need to know.

MerylStreep

GranyGravy
I have a friend in Siberia. English TEFL. This piece by Bidon is practically on a loop on Russian TV. It’s played right in to Putins hands: see, I told you what they wanted, they want to rule us
Thank god the more compos mantis are busy trying to mop up the mess. But an awful lot of people are buying Putins message.

They are because there is no other message to buy on their msm.