Ukraine - contd

Like it or not he is the leader of the free world at the moment, and assuming we wish it to remain free, he is entitled to our support.

???

Isn't the point of this whole sorry mess that we are allowed to criticise our leaders when they do something wrong?

Whitewavemark2

The White House nee Biden recognise the boo boo. That is all we need to know.

The White House nee Biden?

This is just getting silly now WWM2

Sorry Whitewavemark2 this is far more than a boo boo

It could actually be the catalyst/validation that President Putin needs to attack Countries other than Ukraine.

volver

^Like it or not he is the leader of the free world at the moment, and assuming we wish it to remain free, he is entitled to our support.^

???

Isn't the point of this whole sorry mess that we are allowed to criticise our leaders when they do something wrong?

Yes of course it is, and we are aren’t we? But I am simple saying that it is essential not to over-react, and use it as too big a stick to beat Biden with.

The White House recognised the error immediately, as did the rest of the free world. The correction was made, which of course will not be shown in Russia.

We should recognise that Biden is almost certainly metaphorically beating his chest over his ad-Lib remark (when he spoke as an ordinary man and echoed almost certainly what we all think) which he simply can’t afford to do.

Accept his explanation as a form of apology and move on.

GrannyGravy13

Sorry Whitewavemark2 this is far more than a boo boo

It could actually be the catalyst/validation that President Putin needs to attack Countries other than Ukraine.

No, now that is an over-reaction.

volver

Whitewavemark2

The White House nee Biden recognise the boo boo. That is all we need to know.

The White House nee Biden?

This is just getting silly now WWM2

Why

What we have to focus on is the evil being done by Putin, and not a mis+spoken word by the leader of the free world.

It is so important not to over-react at such a difficult time.

Unfortunately the misspoken word could be an over-reaction at such a difficult time.
It was at best undiplomatic, at worst downright dangerous.

It may be what we are all thinking but best left unsaid by the "leader" of the West. Until then I thought he was doing excellent job.

Pro-Putin Russia and those who are anti-Biden will now be seeking more propaganda to justify Putin's actions and unsettle Biden's leadership.

Right then assuming you are all correct, what do you suggest happens next?

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Sorry Whitewavemark2 this is far more than a boo boo

It could actually be the catalyst/validation that President Putin needs to attack Countries other than Ukraine.

No, now that is an over-reaction.

Not at all

POTUS has played right into Putin’s handbook that the West does not and has never respected Russia or it’s President.

The President of the free world wants to remove me as your President, and then what will happen to Russia

How would you feel if as an ordinary Russian citizen you saw this played over and over again on your TV, and that was the only source of information available to you?

Whitewavemark2

Right then assuming you are all correct, what do you suggest happens next?

Start praying that President Putin’s remaining inner circle have the balls not to follow his orders…

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Sorry Whitewavemark2 this is far more than a boo boo

It could actually be the catalyst/validation that President Putin needs to attack Countries other than Ukraine.

No, now that is an over-reaction.

Not at all

POTUS has played right into Putin’s handbook that the West does not and has never respected Russia or it’s President.

The President of the free world wants to remove me as your President, and then what will happen to Russia

How would you feel if as an ordinary Russian citizen you saw this played over and over again on your TV, and that was the only source of information available to you?

But the reason it will make no difference to the outcome is that this is the message that the Russians have been receiving for decades from Putin, it is nothing new as far as they are concerned. It is one if the reasons that Putin used to go into Ukraine.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

Right then assuming you are all correct, what do you suggest happens next?

Start praying that President Putin’s remaining inner circle have the balls not to follow his orders…

I assume you are talking about WMDs?

Putin attacks a peaceful democracy and bombs children and destroys whole cities, and forceably removes Ukrainians to Russia to be held goodness knows where (concentration camps?)

And you argue that Biden’s off the cuff remark, that he accepts he should not have made. Is dangerous!!!

But the reason it will make no difference to the outcome is that this is the message that the Russians have been receiving for decades from Putin, it is nothing new as far as they are concerned. It is one if the reasons that Putin used to go into Ukraine.

Because now they have proof!!!

At least they think they do. Things can be done wrongly on the non-aggressor side as well as the aggressor side. Biden saying something ill-advised does not mean we are blaming him for the invasion, but you don't pick at a scab and make it worse and them complain when you bleed.

BTW - look up the meaning of nee.

Whitewavemark2

Putin attacks a peaceful democracy and bombs children and destroys whole cities, and forceably removes Ukrainians to Russia to be held goodness knows where (concentration camps?)

And you argue that Biden’s off the cuff remark, that he accepts he should not have made. Is dangerous!!!

No one is denying what President Putin is doing is wrong, barbaric and basically multiple war crimes.

I am sorry that you cannot see that POTUS making what you call an off the cuff remark will in President Putin’s mind legitimise his actions in Ukraine and any further actions in neighbouring Countries.

President Putin is dangerous, I do not want WW111 waged on the back of an off the cuff remark by a POTUS with years and years of political experience who should have known better.

So what would you do?

Accepting that Biden has made an error, and we are where we are?

You have a choice it seems to me. Either rally around Biden and move on, or what?

Putin already sees his actions in Ukraine as legitimate, he doesn’t need Biden to confirm them. It is how dictator’s work.

This as I keep repeating will make no difference to the outcome.

I think it’s a storm in a teacup. Ultimately it won’t make any difference whatsoever to the outcome of this conflict.

Casdon

I think it’s a storm in a teacup. Ultimately it won’t make any difference whatsoever to the outcome of this conflict.

That is exactly what I think.

Wow! Thanks, Casdon and Whitewavemark2!

Thank you so much for that

storm in a teacup, eh?

Let the White House know this and while you're at it have a word with Macron. And the majority of western leaders.

Also, I'm pretty sure that had Boris said this you'd be spitting feathers.

Which makes your comments lack credibility

Whitewavemark2

So what would you do?

Accepting that Biden has made an error, and we are where we are?

You have a choice it seems to me. Either rally around Biden and move on, or what?

Putin already sees his actions in Ukraine as legitimate, he doesn’t need Biden to confirm them. It is how dictator’s work.

This as I keep repeating will make no difference to the outcome.

No WWM2 its not a question of "rallying around Biden".

The man made a mistake. He poured fuel on the fire. He gave Putin an excuse to tell his people that the West are trying to undermine him and take over Russia. So we don't all stand behind Biden and say that he was right, just because he's on our side.

What do we do? Nothing. The Secretary of State is trying to fix it.

Maybe it will make no difference to the outcome but we're not talking about wee boys in the playground, we're taking about international diplomacy.

That's how propaganda works.

I’m not a Biden fan Zoejory. However I take a comment like that for what it is, and I’m amazed that people don’t apparently realise that Putin will have been trawling all western social media, and doctoring clips of people saying things he deems ‘anti Russian’ since he initially planned this war. Ultimately this will make no difference.

Putin has always seen his actions in Ukraine as legitimate but thanks to Joe Biden, a good percentage of Russians will now see it that way too, as confirmed in a recorded speech by the US President. Look what happened to Saddam Hussein and Colonel Ghaddafi? Regime change under a different guise. Putin could and probably will, use the the same analogy. Think if Boris had said that!! The shrieks on here would have brought the ceiling down, but for dear old Joe, it was just an unfortunate gaff!

And whilst you are all up in arms about what Biden has said, how do you think that is playing with Putin, who has worked so hard to divide the west?

You are playing his game, and forgetting where your loyalties should be lying.

You can side with the republicans and Trump and act as populists do and

I'm sorry, but all the defence of how "it doesn't really matter", that's just naïve.

Of course it matters!

I'm sure Putin's regime have been using doctored recordings and deepfakes for a long time to try to say the west are out to get them. Now they have an actual, undoctored, live recording of the POTUS telling everyone that their "elected" leader needs to be removed from power. In the middle of a war.

It's a gift!! And I say this as someone who rejoiced when Biden was elected. I'm not anti-Biden but I'm sorry, just getting behind a guy when he does something stupid, because at least he's not Trump, that's not democracy.

You are playing his game, and forgetting where your loyalties should be lying.

Don't imply I'm a traitor, lady.