the law as it stands on sex

Thank you for answering my question trisher

A trans woman/man are perfectly entitled to call themselves that.

Trans women should never be allowed in female only spaces, as they are not female.

I cannot speak for how men feel having trans men in men only spaces, that is for the male population to decide.

I am totally p***ed off with the TWAW approach and those of us that disagree are called phobic absolutely ridiculous, we can just see through the looking glass

Kathleen Stock's book, Material Girls, which I'm reading explains how we've got to the point we're at. I recommend it, and at 99p from that South America River you'' not be out of pocket much ?

Trans women are women. They have always been women. You just didn't know they were there. Now you do they bother you. But they didn't before.
First gender reassignment clinic Germany 1930s
Jan Morris transitioned 1964. surgery 1972
It's been going on for years. It isn't new.

Galaxy

I am not going to embrace stereotypes no matter how much people want me to.

No one is asking you to endorse stereotypes.

What females are saying on here and on many other platforms is they do not want to be categorised along with trans women as we are not the same and never will be biologically or physically.

*you'll

trisher

Trans women are women. They have always been women. You just didn't know they were there. Now you do they bother you. But they didn't before.
First gender reassignment clinic Germany 1930s
Jan Morris transitioned 1964. surgery 1972
It's been going on for years. It isn't new.

Actually, they haven't always been women. You'll understand why if you read Kathleen Stock. It is seriously good on the whole philosophy from Simone de Beauvoir on.

GrannyGravy13

A trans woman/man are perfectly entitled to call themselves that.

Trans women should never be allowed in female only spaces, as they are not female.

I cannot speak for how men feel having trans men in men only spaces, that is for the male population to decide.

I am totally p***ed off with the TWAW approach and those of us that disagree are called phobic absolutely ridiculous, we can just see through the ^looking glass^

Transwomen even with a GRC can be excluded from any place or meeting if their presence would mean natal women would not use it.
They are already.

I'm not arguing about transitioning, just about what has been defined as a woman.

I agree with you granny gravy. I am gender critical. I think gender is based on stereotypes. I think we catagorise those places that need to be catagorised such as prisones etc by sex.

trisher

Trans women are women. They have always been women. You just didn't know they were there. Now you do they bother you. But they didn't before.
First gender reassignment clinic Germany 1930s
Jan Morris transitioned 1964. surgery 1972
It's been going on for years. It isn't new.

I met my first trans women when I was 12 or 13 years of age, a friend of my parents, so please do not tell me what I know.

And for the millionth time, they are trans , there is no possibility of them being able to change their chromosomes to female. This is acknowledged by the majority of trans people that I have met.

Rosie51

You are so transparent!

You guess? How very insulting and rude! (guess and assume have similar meaning)

I do hope your 15 year old students are capable of understanding the basics of biology.

Of course, some psychology too. And manners. Really, would it kill you to have a civil discussion? There are others on here that completely disagree with my opinion, that are able to remain polite.

Why come on an open forum just to be rude to people you disagree with? How pointless.

The first one is biological and the second two just wish to identify as something different to their biological status, I would say.

trisher

Trans women are women. They have always been women. You just didn't know they were there. Now you do they bother you. But they didn't before.
First gender reassignment clinic Germany 1930s
Jan Morris transitioned 1964. surgery 1972
It's been going on for years. It isn't new.

Exactly. In the supermarket. Clothes shops. Pubs. They were invisible. Coexisting.

DiamondLily

The first one is biological and the second two just wish to identify as something different to their biological status, I would say.

I was replying to Doodledog at 15.29

Er I was getting pissed with transwomen about 30 years ago so I am pretty sure I knew they were there.

Once again on here it’s the use of man instead of male that allows the ‘not all men have a penis’ comments.

Males have male gametes. Males have a penis unless there is some medical reason for it no longer to be there. Even so, he would still be male.

Rephrase any question or comment where you put man or men (excluding compound words like transman and transmen) and put male.
Likewise use female instead of woman.

Males cannot be females.
Females cannot be male.
Transmen cannot be male.
Transwomen cannot be female.

Females do not have a penis.
Males do not have a vagina.

Just a warning, some posters will ‘reframe your’ question.

There have been men claiming to be women for a very long time, but there were very, very few of them.
The GRA legislation was based on the assumption that there would continue to be very, very few of them, that men would only do this as a result of great distress and that they would all have their penis and testicles removed as a main part of their transition.

The situation has now completely changed so that ever larger numbers of men are choosing to say that they are women, regardless of whether they make any change at all, and are immediately being accepted as if this were true.
It is going so far that the Scottish government now has legislation underway to make GRCs available to anyone who wishes, after a very short wait and with no medical diagnosis.
Possession of a GRC means that a birth certificate with an incorrect sex identifier can also be obtained.

I really don't want to have to wait until those who are defending all this find out that some men taking advantage of this turns out to be quite a large number and quite a big problem.

DiamondLily

The first one is biological and the second two just wish to identify as something different to their biological status, I would say.

Thanks, DL

Would anyone else like to answer, please? What's the difference between a woman, a transwoman and a man in a dress (or other women's clothing)?

I'm confused about the woman/female thing. To me 'female' is an adjective to describe the characteristics of a woman, which is a noun.

FarNorth brilliant post.
No one was previously bothered about trans women because it wasn’t a problem then.

Just a warning, some posters will ‘reframe your’ question.

A very good reason not to respond to demands for answers. Assuming the answer will be wrong before it's given. And being aggressive about possible theoretical answers.

What is gender then? Nothing more than historical, cultural stereotypes? Seems a very retrograde step to take. Exactly.

Young people "going gender neutral" trisher involves then claiming to have no sex at all and/or to be sometimes male & sometimes female, all of which is clearly nonsense.

Feminists had hoped to loosen the grip of stereotypes but, instead, they are being reinforced by youth who think they are so progressive.
(And a few elders who think likewise)

I’m sure there’ll be other answers but:

A woman-since 2004 a woman can mean a female or a male who says he’s a woman.

A transwoman is a male who says he’s a woman.
He may have gender dysphoria.
He may or may not have gone through any form of medical transition.
He may just fancy a change, or
(Fill in your own, I’m trying to be uncontroversial).

A man in woman’s clothing other than dresses?
Difficult. Women wear trousers, shirts, shorts, jeans, jumpers and sweaters No problem. Leggings with skimpy T shirts Hmm . . .
A man in the current fashion for wearing your bra on display with a skimpy top?
OK-if has the nerve, go for it!

A man in a thong bikini on the beach?
Well I don’t have to look, but I don’t see the point if he’s trying to be a ‘woman’.

The thought of men waxing their legs and chest for the bikini line is quite enjoyable actually.

A man in a dress can be:
A male with a fetish
A drag artist on Ru Paul
A lady boy
A female impersonator like Dame Edna
A Scotsman in a kilt (half a dress)
A transwoman
A cross-dresser

Hope this helps.

woman, n. - Oxford English Dictionary
a. An adult female human being

that's what a woman is and always has been.

although it has become offensive to say so, so powerful is the trans lobby..

GagaJo Really, would it kill you to have a civil discussion? this is your interpretation of polite and civil?

Doodledog I'll answer your question

A woman is an adult human female, no more no less.

A transwoman is a man (male) who wishes he was a woman or feels he'd be more comfortable in that role. Some have surgery and hormone treatment, some have just hormone treatment, and some do neither and just wear stereotypical female clothing. I'm not sure why just wearing the clothing satisfies the feelings, but I accept that for some it does. I don't think any of these actions actually makes the individual a woman.

A man in a dress may be a transwoman (as above) or may just enjoy wearing dresses or other typically female attire.