Suella Braverman’s speech…

I agree that people who despise immigrants shouldnt be in charge of immigration policy. I think Braverman is an arse but we shouldnt be linking being an arse to peoples ethnicity/background. I often agree with James o Brien but I think hes also an arse. I am an equal opportunity identifier of arses

Braverman is the child of immigrants who appears to think her immigrant forebears are good guys who deserved to stay here but the immigrants on the Channel boats are bad guys who need to be sent to Rwanda on a one way ticket.

That makes her more than an a**e.

Yes but I dont like o Brien solutions either. It's all deeply unpleasant.

What are O'Brien's solutions? Serious question.

I am not sure how he is going to implement his suggestion that some immigrants dont get to hold particular public offices, perhaps he could screen them, who knows. Bravermans speech was inhumane but his point of view was also unpleasant in my view.

Galaxy

I am not sure how he is going to implement his suggestion that some immigrants dont get to hold particular public offices, perhaps he could screen them, who knows. Bravermans speech was inhumane but his point of view was also unpleasant in my view.

I took that remark as a point of interest and debate, not a suggestion for policy?

This is a bit like the thread about the nurse who talked about not resuscitating tories. Just because someone says something, they don't have to be held responsible for coming up with a system that operationalises the comment.

He's not suggesting a new vetting system should be implemented, just saying that people who despise immigrants shouldn't be in charge of immigration policy.

WWM2 that's what I meant but you said it a lot better!

volver

WWM2 that's what I meant but you said it a lot better!

? make the most of it, I mostly say daft stuff which I get picked up on and have to admit it was daft!

If he had said people who despise immigrants that would have been grand but he linked it to their background/ethnicity. She gave you all the ammunition you needed in her inhumane speech.
I am not picking on you WW, I am challenging o Brien. I dont want racism from the left or right. Its no good replacing one awfulness with another. And as for the nurse it will be no surprise that I think employers control of speech is a bad idea. But unfortunately that applies to all speech not just the speech we agree with.

'Great Britain' is the name of an island and does not signify 'great' in the sense of moral rectitude or imperial power.

The British state no longer wields imperial power and has not done so for a long time, since the end of the war approximately. And never again will rule over colonies abroad.

The Conservatives have lost it economically according to the experts and even according to many in their own party.

galaxy I would not class O’Brian as left tbh. He vehemently was against Corbyn.

I see him as centre left - in other words where most people are in the U.K. politically.

Im not convinced by your argument, but happy to leave it there?

If he had said people who despise immigrants that would have been grand but he linked it to their background/ethnicity.

It's their background ethnicity that makes it all the more shocking, Galaxy.

I think that people's background has an impact on how they think and how they act. It's not the only thing that does, but to ignore how we have been brought up, our childhood experiences and what we have been conditioned to think, is ignoring a major part of our character.

I am centre left there are arses there too WW. We all behaved like grown ups in that disagreement, someone needs to mention Meghan so we can get back to normal.
I see an officer in the Met has just been suspended for their racist WhatsApp messages. What a mess it all is.

He is in - guess where. - the home office now.

Yes saw that.

volver

I think that people's background has an impact on how they think and how they act. It's not the only thing that does, but to ignore how we have been brought up, our childhood experiences and what we have been conditioned to think, is ignoring a major part of our character.

Blimey volver I find myself in total agreement with you.

Our early experiences and the people around us definitely have influence on who we are and how we react if only at a subliminal level.

GrannyGravy13

volver

I think that people's background has an impact on how they think and how they act. It's not the only thing that does, but to ignore how we have been brought up, our childhood experiences and what we have been conditioned to think, is ignoring a major part of our character.

Blimey volver I find myself in total agreement with you.

Our early experiences and the people around us definitely have influence on who we are and how we react if only at a subliminal level.

Yes.

Great points RPJ

volver

I think that people's background has an impact on how they think and how they act. It's not the only thing that does, but to ignore how we have been brought up, our childhood experiences and what we have been conditioned to think, is ignoring a major part of our character.

My daughter is currently back working for the Civil Service in a "secure" environment. Before she was allowed to take up the post, she had to go through all sorts of checks on her political beliefs, etc. They even wanted to know the name and date of birth/address of her parents and I guess we were checked out too. Part of her vetting was what her attitude would be to dealing with people who had done really horrendous things.

If civil servants have to go through that, why not politicians in high office?

MaizieD

^If he had said people who despise immigrants that would have been grand but he linked it to their background/ethnicity.^

It's their background ethnicity that makes it all the more shocking, Galaxy.

Exactly, the whole point.

Her family got the chance to seek a better life and settle in the UK. Same for Priti Patel. And now they want to pull the bridge. THAT is the whole point.

How would you feel if Jews were Holocaust deniers? Perhaps?

The same as I feel about all holocaust deniers. I dont judge people by their race/ethnicity or try not to anyway.

Galaxy

The same as I feel about all holocaust deniers. I dont judge people by their race/ethnicity or try not to anyway.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. We are not talking about ethnicity here, but about certain people who have availed themselves of the chance to seek a better life here and to succeed. In this case they happen to belong to certain ethnic groups who did just that. Same as Huguenots in the past.

I have very good friends who are Jews, from Israel. They are totally pro Palestine and against Israeli aggression, destruction and ethnic cleansing. The fact they are Jews makes this all the more poignant.