Boris Johnson - a warning from history

*Lucca

Ladyleftfieldlover
Seriously, if I was a lot younger I would leave this country and start again elsewhere. It would be easy if Brexit hadn’t happened, but…
Me too*

Yep, and me

I’ve been pondering on all this all evening. I listened to the latest The Rest is Politics, which, to a certain extent keeps me sane. And often throws up something that makes sense of what is happening. And something they said made me realise that Johnson becomes everything to everybody. Ben Wallace looks on him as someone that will support Ukraine and increase defence spending. And Alok Sharma, who totally shocked me when he said he supported Johnson ( I really thought he was a good guy) thinks Johnson really cares about climate change. Sometimes MP’s come across as really good eg Tom Tugendhat, but it’s only because they feel passionately about a particular subject and in his case it was Afghanistan. But when it comes to people not being able to pay their mortgages he’s as bad as the rest of them. He surely can’t come out in favour of Johnson because he publicly said he was a liar in the last leadership election. I wish I could go to sleep for a year and just wake up when it’s all over and we, hopefully, have a new government.

nanna8

I wonder how much Liz Truss was paid for her role in this? And where they hid the money.

Probably in the same suitcase that the booze from Tescos was sneaked in for the parties!

And something they said made me realise that Johnson becomes everything to everybody.

I think you’re right MayBe. I’ve been trying really hard to understand why MPs & Tory members will vote to get Johnson back, and also why ordinary people say they would welcome his return. And I think the point you make hits the nail on the head. Johnson appeals to any individual for whom one or more of the following is OK:

Racism
Misogyny
Homophobia
Adultery
Brexit
Lying
Elitism
Egocentrism
Law breaking

It’s not that a Johnson supporter necessarily ‘signs up’ to all the above (although probably some do) but even one similarly held belief / trait is enough to make them think Johnson’s ‘not that bad’. When the rest of us say ‘but look at Johnson, you know he’s flawed’, it is precisely those flaws that are his appeal for many people. So, Johnson becomes ‘everything to everyone’. We can only hope that there are enough humane, compassionate, decent people left in this country to ensure that the good rise to the top - eventually.

I suppose it's like the fundamentalist Christian support for Trump in the USA. Though it still strikes me as an indication of a non-existent moral compass.

MaizieD

I suppose it's like the fundamentalist Christian support for Trump in the USA. Though it still strikes me as an indication of a non-existent moral compass.

I’m not sure about a lack of moral compass, I think millions of people are disinterested in politics, can’t be bothered to question what information they are fed by the media, and don’t watch or listen to any debates to make them question anything - they are gullible and have fixed beliefs. You see it frequently on Gransnet, and on other social media sites. It’s an unforgivable trait in the eyes those who care and are engaged, but I don’t think it is easy to change at all.

I dont think its unforgivable. People must have no understanding of peoples lives if they think that's unforgivable.

A small thought:
Parliament is sitting. Boris Johson is MP for Uxbridge. He is on holiday.
Are the people of Uxbridge feeling represented through these turbulent days?
Sums the man's attitude to democracy up in a nutshell for me. No respect, no sense of accountability.

"That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;"

Matthew Parris has it right this morning, I think...

(this link may, or may not work, the Times usually being behind a paywall)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b77d2fee-5171-11ed-b120-ca4f3ffbcdc5?shareToken=fa8792dd1a6995776649241c66450eed

Galaxy

I dont think its unforgivable. People must have no understanding of peoples lives if they think that's unforgivable.

Seriously? I’d say the people who do care about politics are often those who are the most engaged with other peoples lives and want to improve them. It’s therefore immensely frustrating when the attitudes of the more comfortably off who aren’t directly affected themselves by changes in the economy which affect services can’t be bothered to find out accurate information, and are uninformed, with fixed beliefs in the face of all the evidence.

I was talking about the families I work with casdon, whose lives are so difficult that getting children to school is often an impossibility, let alone having the time or space to be engaged politically.

I'm not sure about 'disinterested' in politics, Casdon, as 'disinterested' means you have nothing to gain or lose from politics, which is patently untrue as everyone gains or loses from political actions.

Whereas 'uninterested' would fit the bill perfectly.
However, even the apparently uninterested usually have an opinion to express, which must be based on something. Are we to believe that most voters are oblivious to Johnson's 'shortcomings' so can be forgiven for having no moral compass?

There is a photo of Mr.Johnson on a BA flight, economy class with his wife and children flying back from Dom Rep last night.

Apparently there were some boos

Wouldn’t like to do that length of flight in economy, let alone with two young children.

Poor Carrie. It must have been awful for her….you’d think the airline would have upgraded them considering they were travelling back because of a matter of national importance.

I was always a supporter of democracy but after seeing how dumb and easily led the electorate is I now have my doubts.

GrannyGravy13

There is a photo of Mr.Johnson on a BA flight, economy class with his wife and children flying back from Dom Rep last night.

Apparently there were some boos

Wouldn’t like to do that length of flight in economy, let alone with two young children.

Plenty of people do, and longer eg my family from Sydney.
My heart doesn’t bleed for Johnson .

Galaxy

I was talking about the families I work with casdon, whose lives are so difficult that getting children to school is often an impossibility, let alone having the time or space to be engaged politically.

I’m guessing the people you work with are unlikely to vote at all Galaxy? The majority of the population do have time and space in their lives though, particularly as they get older, but they are (I accept MaizieD’s word change) uninterested in politics, and their beliefs get more fixed and less questioning as they age. I don’t think that they have no moral compass, cloth ears though perhaps.

GrannyGravy13

There is a photo of Mr.Johnson on a BA flight, economy class with his wife and children flying back from Dom Rep last night.

Apparently there were some boos

Wouldn’t like to do that length of flight in economy, let alone with two young children.

Goodness, GG13. Did you realise what that would sound like?

Lots of people have to do that flight in economy because they can't afford anything else. It must be lovely to be able to do it in business class and pity the poor souls in economy...

Children are not accepted in first class.

If Johnson is found guilty of misleading parliament, doesn’t he lose his seat?

It’s like an abused wife taking back her abusive ex - they believe him when he says he’ll change … ( we know he won’t)

Maw, I was thinking about your post yesterday with all the clamour for BoJo to come back. I thought it was a conspiracy theory too far because I couldn't believe anybody in Government would be quite so stupid. They are and we're doomed.

Whitewavemark2

Children are not accepted in first class.

That BA route (Dom Rep to Heathrow) doesn’t have a First Class section, it does however have a Business Class with flat beds.

Children are definitely accepted and welcomed in that section.

I am as sure as I can be (so not very?) that Johnson won’t get the leadership.

If he does there will be absolute chaos in the Tory party.

It is going to be bad enough with Sunak who is loathed by a large amount of Tory MPs

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

Children are not accepted in first class.

That BA route (Dom Rep to Heathrow) doesn’t have a First Class section, it does however have a Business Class with flat beds.

Children are definitely accepted and welcomed in that section.

I’ll remember that and avoid business class next time I fly BA to DR.