Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

Parents not pans

Oh dear Lathyrus I hope it isn't contagious!!!

As you say, parents are informed about any lessons referring to sex education so they have the option to have their children withdrawn. It stands to reason then that especially in a primary school setting, such conversations should not take place without parental consent.

Doodledog I wasnt taken aback at all . I was just freezing watching football.
I wasnt actually replying to you initially so it's my fault for being unclear. VS had said something along the lines that the gender critical just moan so I was giving examples of non moaning and constructive approaches.

Today 12:39 Lathyrus I haven’t quoted your post but it was a really clear explanation of primary RSE.
I recently had occasion to discuss our RSE policy/SoW with an Ofsted inspector during a meeting about Safeguarding.
Governors as well as all staff are expected to be aware of this.

Galaxy

Doodledog I wasnt taken aback at all . I was just freezing watching football.
I wasnt actually replying to you initially so it's my fault for being unclear. VS had said something along the lines that the gender critical just moan so I was giving examples of non moaning and constructive approaches.

I have a little faith in you

Mollygo

Rosie51

Signed. I do wonder why anybody who agrees with all the other protected characteristics in the EA wouldn't think the 'sex' characteristic should be defined according to sex. Gender is a protected category. Are they frightened if sex is properly defined and protected as in biology, women might actually retain some protections?

Exactly that Rosie51.
By not signing, they make it quite clear that for them, male supremacy still rules, even if he’s wearing a dress!

You couldn't have this more wrong. NO, not in any way, shape or form!

I do not see the vast majority of transgender people as a threat, and certainly not any more than 'males' (or females for that matter). We all react according to our own entourage and circumstances, as well as reading around the subject to go beyond personal experience. The Trans friends I have, 4 of them, 3 who have had full sexual reversal and 1 not- are all gentle, kind, caring, and did so because they perceived being a 'male' as being dominant, and in their extperience, often violent and controlling. The total opposite of 'male supremacy'.

There are bad, malevolent and dangerous people who are females, and males, and yes, trans-gender. But proportionally statistics show that violence and threats come from males. But I refuse to discriminate against males- because of this. The males who have been part of my life are all great creatures, and never a threat.

And to force those friends to use Public toilets where they will be at massive risk of being bullied, beaten, raped or worse- is not something I want to do. They deserve to be safe too, whatever their choices.

I do not see the vast majority of transgender people as a threat, and certainly not any more than 'males' (or females for that matter).

No, and nor do I. Nevertheless there are a few places (eg changing rooms in swimming baths, hospital wards) where men and women are segregated for a reason. Some areas have single-sex swimming baths, or sessions at municipal baths. Places where women can go in a state of undress without the male gaze or the fear of being assaulted when they are vulnerable.

It's not that anyone is saying that transpeople are dangerous. It is that transwomen are actually men, and therefore should not be in women's spaces, any more than any other men. Not because all of them are dangerous, but because some of them might be, and because some women have religious beliefs (protected in law) that mean they are unable to share intimate spaces or be undressed next to men other than their husbands.

This really has been said over and over. What is not making sense to you, FP?

My brother is a lovely person he is not allowed in a female prison if he commits a crime, he should not be in a female refuge, etc etc, this is not discrimination it is part of the equality act.

TWAW

I am sorry but saying that doesnt make it true.

VioletSky

TWAW

🤭

Galaxy

I am sorry but saying that doesnt make it true.

Neither does saying TWAM

But then I'm not advocating removing women's safe spaces

I'm just advocating acceptance and respect

Ha ha.

Can’t even hit the emoji I want now.

Fat finger, Smileless.

Also that being a GC bulky weakens the GC argument but I think you already know that galaxy which is why you don't engage, even if you sadly don't denounce

So that means exclusion I am afraid for men no matter how they present.
Toilets as I have mentioned are in my view fairly easily solved. But the rest refuges prisons sport crime stats etc are not places where men can be.

Doodledog

Glorianny

Doodledog

They ignored him because he was fat and trans.

It’s a very sad and very strange case, but this is a bit of a leap. The finding that ‘gender assumptions can be detrimental in hospitals’ is not saying that at all. What is the basis for your arrival at that conclusion?

From the article
When the 32-year-old man arrived at the hospital with severe abdominal pains, a nurse did not consider it an emergency, noting the man was obese
They administered a pregnancy test so they didn't think he was male they knew he was trans. They thought he was fat.

That's not what you were saying before though. 'They ignored him because he was fat and trans' suggests that he didn't get treatment, but in fact he was tested for pregnancy exactly because he said he was trans.

It is a dreadful case, but are you suggesting that anyone of either sex who is of childbearing age should be tested for pregnancy in a busy A&E ward? Scrap that - anyone of any age. I was asked about the possibility of pregnancy when I got my Covid jab. Maybe they thought I could be a surrogate or something?

As I said upthread, there is another discussion going on about boys being asked if they are pregnant on another thread. It seems that hospitals are making an effort. At what point does personal responsibility come in, though?

A test is just a test, not treatment.
As for personal responsibility he had already done a home pregnancy test. He described feeling as if he'd peed himself. There are many people who use such expressions when their waters break
Because they thought he was obese they ignored the possibility of pregnancy.
Because he was trans he was treated differently to someone presenting with the same symptoms who identified as female.
Doesn't matter how you spin it.
Could you please explain to me what you think the phrase about gender assumptions means, because linked with the further statement that doctors are not trained to deal with trans patients I think it means that the staff assumed the patient could not be pregnant because he was trans so did not treat him properly.

FP
I do not see the vast majority of transgender people as a threat, and certainly not any more than 'males' (or females for that matter).
Neither do I or any other posters I’ve come across.
What I regret is the actions of those TIM who have made life so difficult and unpleasant, both for females and for other trans.

And to force those friends to use Public toilets where they will be at massive risk of being bullied, beaten, raped or worse- is not something I want to do. They deserve to be safe too, whatever their choices
Which is why they should be campaigning for provision of separate toilet facilities, rather than setting a precedent for any male to use female facilities.

It’s unfortunate, and the blame lies as I have said repeatedly, with certain TW and the TRA who support them.
I’m told by various posters that you can’t tell the difference and that some trans have been using female toilets for years.
If that’s true, then they or those TW not out to cause trouble would still have no difficulty in using female facilities unnoticed.
Did any of those who did so in the past make it obvious that they were male? Did any of them come out of the toilets showing off that they had used female facilities despite being male?
Did of those TW who’ve been using female facilities unnoticed previously, claim discrimination for being rejected from female facilities when they were obviously male?
*I don’t know how to undo the damage to trans and the perception of all TW that
certain TW and the TRA who support them have done.*
I do firmly believe that counteracting that damage should not be done at the expense of female safety and female rights.

Let’s have some solutions that don’t involve that.
A big step forward would be for TRA stop supporting the trans causing the trouble and making it clear that they think their behaviour is unacceptable.

I don't either Fleur but as things stand, a full bodied male identifying as a woman can enter female only spaces, and if just one of those men has a desire to assault a natal female, then surely regardless of how small a risk it may be, it isn't a risk worth taking.

Of course all trans deserve to be safe and proper facilities should be available to them, but not at the expense of natal women.

Maybe it's something in the water Lathyrus.

Trans women are not men; a man is an adult male. Trans women are not women; a woman is an adult female.

Is there anyone here who doesn't advocate acceptance and respect?

Acceptance and respect for trans isn't only demonstrated by accepting trans women in female only spaces, therefore not accepting them in female only spaces is not demonstrating an absence of acceptance and/or respect.

It's tragic that those who simply want to get on with their lives have been cast into the spotlight by a few TW and the support they receive from TRA's.

A big step forward would be for TRA to stop supporting the trans causing the trouble and making it clear that they think their behaviour is unacceptable we can only hope Mollygo.

Galaxy

So that means exclusion I am afraid for men no matter how they present.
Toilets as I have mentioned are in my view fairly easily solved. But the rest refuges prisons sport crime stats etc are not places where men can be.

I don't agree its because they are men

It's actually possible to do so.

I think that there may be physical advantages to being trans in sports

I believe that there is a certain type of man who dresses as a woman but doesn't believe they are one who is also dangerous

I think that traumatised women need to focus on healing rather than me worrying about whether they discriminate

But anyone with gender dysphoria who lives as a woman is a woman.

Too many GC feminists demand people tell then what a woman is... the truth is women don't have the right to define what a woman is to each other

But to me, being a woman is fighting for the equality and rights of other women and lifting each other up.

Even when the most bullying abuse and heartbreak I have ever received in life has come from, you guessed it, a woman.

Living as a woman exposes trans women to all the same issues we face so

One of us.
One of us.
One of us.

Even though I still feel in order to ensure people get the right support and medical attention we do need to understand the differences between us... those differences are physical but there is evidence to suggest there are also similarities.

When it comes to any demographic I focus on what is the same and what we have in common...

In the same way I tried to focus on what I had in common with GC feminists before I realised that actually looking farther than shared concerns, we really have very little in common at all.

Other women thinking they absolutely have a right to dictate what a woman is, who another woman is and how another woman and what they should look like is is definitely an issue

And it is the reason the GC will eventually find thor views as frowned upon as those who believe homosexuality is wrong, no matter how beliefs are protected.

What I believe has no impact on who is a woman VS, I dont have that power. If I say the mantra it still wont change peoples sex.

Smileless2012

I don't either Fleur but as things stand, a full bodied male identifying as a woman can enter female only spaces, and if just one of those men has a desire to assault a natal female, then surely regardless of how small a risk it may be, it isn't a risk worth taking.

Of course all trans deserve to be safe and proper facilities should be available to them, but not at the expense of natal women.

Taking away trans people's rights and discriminating against them does not prevent men masquerading as women

Just because there are no men walking around saying " I pretended to be a woman and went in the woman's loos huh huh" o be angry at doesn't make it acceptable to be angry at trans women about it.

Some people just need a punchbag though I guess

Being a woman is fighting for others rights and holding them up. Is that what ypu think a woman is? So women who dont do that arent women?

Excluding men from womens spaces is not discrimination it's part of the equality act however irritating you may find that.

Galaxy

What I believe has no impact on who is a woman VS, I dont have that power. If I say the mantra it still wont change peoples sex.

Tell me, if tomorrow they developed a test that shows 100% that these people have the wrong body and some aspect of development has let them down... (even though science is already going in that direction)

Are you going to change your mind?

Of course the danger of that is that a test would mean that people would likely check for it in pregnancy and decide not to continue with it pr young people will continue to self harm and suicide when they realise this truth about themselves...