Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

Rosie51

Do people really see Eddie Izzard who is a 'girl' some of the time and a 'boy' some of the time despite being 60 years old as a 'genuine transwoman'? If he isn't the epitome of rich white male privilege then I don't know what is!

No, not at all. Eddie Izzard is a male, as he has not made the clear choice not to be a female.

I am not sure one could insist legally that only those who have fully transitioned via hormones and surgery, can be classed as 'women' in legal terms- because that would encourage more youngsters to insist on full transition as above

Simple answers, NO I do NOT have them. It is very complex, and as a female who has never had any doubt about who and what I am- I am not the best person to answer.

But it is not black and white- and 'simple answers' which result in clear discrimination and even danger, for trans women, are not the way forwards.

We all react partly due to what and whom we know. And I have several friends who are trans, 3 have gone through full physical and hormonal transition, 1 has not. And they are no threat, no risk, no danger- to anyone, of any sex, anywhere. I have to try and see things through their eyes, heart and souls.

I know lots of transwomen fleur. They would not dream of using single sex spaces. They respect womens boundaries.

Galaxy

Yes GN need to run alongside single sex provision not replace them. In the unis I have visited there were 3 options.

I don't think it's realistic to expect building managers to install whole new toilet blocks though. Apart from the lost space there are plumbing issues and the expense could be enormous, to cater for a very small number of people.

In my last place of work (before this one) there was one female loo on the floor where my office was. Again, it doubled as the disabled one. When I say one, I mean as in one toilet, not one block. I strongly suspect that it was put in for disabled students (or possibly staff) in the days when there were fewer female staff or students, and 'converted' in the same way as the GN ones in the new place. Anyway, because of this, it was used by both sexes, which was ridiculous. The Union was always complaining, but were told every time that the building would have to be remodelled to accommodate a new block (which seemed true to my untrained eye) and that the cost of rerouting the plumbing made changes impossible.

New builds might be able to accommodate 3 sets of loos, but whether it is cost-effective to do so will depend on the number of people likely to use them.

Lathyrus

VioletSky

I guess that's what triggers me to anger on theses topics

Personal stuff against me, I've got a thick skin

But the idea that any bullying around trans issues or public conversations or authors they respect leading to any child or young person being too afraid to reveal their feelings and self harming or suiciding

Well that just absolutely horrifies me

I was thinking on my walk today that perhaps I can't change what other adults say but I can behave myself in ways that inspire confidence in children and young people that someone will listen

I wonder if you read the case in the papers today of a convicted paedophile who lived as a transwoman for several months in a women’s refuge.

Presenting as an abused woman, “one of us” to use your own phrase, the women in the refuge trusted them with their children in the everyday life of the refuge allowing them to supervise play, help with babies, all the things that they supported each other with.

This account made my blood run cold.Hiw easy it was for this person to gain access to children simply by stating he was an abused woman.

I wonder if you have any views on how this could be prevented in a world where someone has access to female safe spaces simply by stating they are a woman?

Well if you actually read the story she stayed in a special trans block not in the women's section.. The separate facilities did share a garden.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11392601/Transgender-paedophile-caught-duping-staff-71-day-stay-domestic-violence-refuge.html

Yes it was in the garden that she played with children and helped with babies.

We don’t know that any abuse took place and shouldnt speculate as it is under investigation.

My point was that it was so easy for her to gain access to what should have been a safe place for women and children.

It was the children who were uppermost in my mind and how it has shaken confidence in Refuges being safe places.

My questions were how can we ensure they are safe places for women and children

and

Where can abused families go if Refuges are no longer felt to be safe.

I do know that to some people the principle and the ideal is what is important.

But I’m afraid I’m always going to be that person who says
“But this isn’t working out in practice, in the real world”.

Lathyrus

We don’t know that any abuse took place and shouldnt speculate as it is under investigation.

My point was that it was so easy for her to gain access to what should have been a safe place for women and children.

It was the children who were uppermost in my mind and how it has shaken confidence in Refuges being safe places.

My questions were how can we ensure they are safe places for women and children

and

Where can abused families go if Refuges are no longer felt to be safe.

One single case does not make a place unsafe. Sometimes mistakes happen it's unfortunate, and their assessment procedures need looking at. However it is incredibly difficult to investigate when someone is intent on deception.

I've read a bit more about this case and I agree we shouldn't be discussing it. It wasn't really the fact that the person is trans which is the issue. It's more to do with the criminal record and false ID. The refuge undoubtedly has some questions to address.

Lathyrus

We don’t know that any abuse took place and shouldnt speculate as it is under investigation.

My point was that it was so easy for her to gain access to what should have been a safe place for women and children.

It was the children who were uppermost in my mind and how it has shaken confidence in Refuges being safe places.

My questions were how can we ensure they are safe places for women and children

and

Where can abused families go if Refuges are no longer felt to be safe.

I doubt if we ever can guarantee they'll be 100% safe. Natal women have been convicted of horrific abuse and could just as easily have found a place in a refuge.

Doodledog I don't understand. If this was a single toilet, presumably you went into the toilet and locked the door behind you, so you were safe. Why is it ridiculous that it was used by males and females (apart from the fact that it sounds as though there weren't enough toilets for the building)?

Try asking that if you are desperate for a wee . If it had been a women-only one the men would have gone to their own.

The point was really in answer to the idea that 'all people have to do' is provide three sets of loos. It isn't that simple in buildings that are already plumbed in the way they are. If it had been easier, we could have had another block of women's toilets - it's not like we didn't need them. Opening them to men as well just makes the situation worse.

But the fact is there weren't enough loos! Not that they were men or women only! It doesn't matter whether the loo was occupied by a man or a woman.

I agree that it's not always easy to provide three sets of loos, unless it's a new build.

I will discuss any case I like thankyou very much, it's hard to get information but is seems this is the same man who assaulted a child in a public tolilet.

Galaxy

I will discuss any case I like thankyou very much, it's hard to get information but is seems this is the same man who assaulted a child in a public tolilet.

Galaxy It's "sub judice" - that's why it shouldn't really be discussed.

I am talking about a case that is currently in the press. It's an example of why men should not be placed in womens spaces which is why people are uncomfortable about discussing it.
There have been numerous cases such as this particularly in prisons, where there are many vulnerable women, but no one tends to care about those types of women.

There is currently legal action ongoing to ensure that a particular geographical area provides single sex provision with regard to refuges, if that case is successful it would have massive implications.

growstuff

But the fact is there weren't enough loos! Not that they were men or women only! It doesn't matter whether the loo was occupied by a man or a woman.

I agree that it's not always easy to provide three sets of loos, unless it's a new build.

Which was my point. People say that ‘all you have to do’ is have GN ones or that there could be three options, but practically that doesn’t always work other than in new builds.

In school, staff toilets are GN -cubicles with locks, because we trust the staff not to behave in a manner that would cause discomfort or harm.
If only that could be said for all users of public toilets there wouldn’t be a problem.

Glorianny

Lathyrus

We don’t know that any abuse took place and shouldnt speculate as it is under investigation.

My point was that it was so easy for her to gain access to what should have been a safe place for women and children.

It was the children who were uppermost in my mind and how it has shaken confidence in Refuges being safe places.

My questions were how can we ensure they are safe places for women and children

and

Where can abused families go if Refuges are no longer felt to be safe.

One single case does not make a place unsafe. Sometimes mistakes happen it's unfortunate, and their assessment procedures need looking at. However it is incredibly difficult to investigate when someone is intent on deception.

I agree one incident doesn’t make a place unsafe. But it does make a place feel unsafe to those who already know how unsafe life can be.

If families have lost confidence then they won’t access the refuge. Refuges are places where emotions run high, fear is in high supply and trust fragile.

Why is it so hard to accept that providing a place where abused women and children can feel safe should take priority.

It wasn’t fake ID but a new ID as a transwoman. So impossible for the Refuge to run any check on her ID as a male offender.

Surely everyone can see this is one issue that has to be addressed.

The ID doesnt change the fact that this is a man.

Yes it does need to be addressed Lathyrus. It's very worrying to know that by having a new ID, past offences can't be flagged up because they happened under the previous one.

A case like this will quite rightly make vulnerable women who are seeking a place of safety in a refuge, wonder if they will be a safe as they expect and hope to be.

I understand the point that you are making Lathyrus and I agree but I think its also important to remember that there is a child victim here and the impact this may have on the child by pretending this person is a woman.

Galaxy

I understand the point that you are making Lathyrus and I agree but I think its also important to remember that there is a child victim here and the impact this may have on the child by pretending this person is a woman.

Oh yes, I wouldn’t deny that at all.

It’s difficult to raise all the concerns that need to be addressed.

Hopefully the all party committee will utterly dismiss the “No debate” agenda.

We really need to admit there are problems and seek ways to solve them rather than try to pretend they don’t exist. When the evidence of multiple problems is increasing day by day.