Scotland's Gender Recognition Reform Bill to be debated today 20 Dec & voted on 21 Dec

Aveline

Says it all.

Truly, Aveline, no, it does not.

Aveline

If only it was that simple!

As you say yourself ...

FarNorth

Wyllow3 I'm sorry to hear you are in such a difficult situation and completely understand if you don't have the brainspace to think about trans ideology.
That doesn't mean you should dismiss concerns as transphobia.

Please do start a thread about anything you would like to see discussed.

FarNorth, I've been active in these discussions for a very long time as its an issue we discuss many time over in L Party Meetings. And in the 1970's in Womens Liberation meetings since we were fairly inclusive of transwomen at conferences and in discussion groups. An activist for many years. Obviously I have contacts on "both sides of the debate"

My "brain space" as you put it, is very competent.

I think maybe you are being more than a little patronising to suit your POV, as in "oh the poor thing she cant think straight?"

Its possible for me to be involved in a most personal situation - police, arrests, getting help, as a result et al - and keep my intellectual powers.

If anything my experiences have strengthened my POV as to what the underlying troubles are, and they are, as I stated.

Breakdown of who voted for and against the GRR Bill.

twitter.com/bbcphilipsim/status/1605957583654645760?s=61&t=2LktGuHTzAxjXjX20XVlig

Crikey lady honoria could you be any more patronising. I and the other women involved in these discussions dont need press barons to tell us anything, we were involved in these issues long before the press became interested. The contempt shown for the public is always lovely to watch though.
I am currently aware of a number of wonen who have been assaulted within the prison service and of legal action being taken with regard to refuges to ensure they provide one, just one, single sex refuge in a geographical area. I am afraid your knowledge on the subject isnt as comprehensive as you seem to think.
As for move along, nothing to see, that's what they said about the tavistock, mermaids, puberty blockers, and oops that wasnt quite accurate was it?

Well I wonder, now that the SNP has won, whether people will feel able to say what they think without worrying about appearing disloyal. I know several women who have been really worried about this, and some who are involved with the SNP at various levels who have felt simultaneously scared of the act and scared of saying so. Whether they will now be able to speak their minds or will feel more disinclined to do so remains to be seen. I don't envy them, tbh. It's bad enough being in the Labour Party, but I am only involved at local level and even then in a very limited capacity.

I have some sense that the labour party is becoming a little more open to discussion DD, I have heard the subject of single sex spaces raised at branch level recently.

Reading through the posts in this thread I must admit I have noticed a certain amount of misandry in several of them.

It's not misandry to point out that men commit certain crimes at a completely different rate to women.

Doodledog

Well I wonder, now that the SNP has won, whether people will feel able to say what they think without worrying about appearing disloyal. I know several women who have been really worried about this, and some who are involved with the SNP at various levels who have felt simultaneously scared of the act and scared of saying so. Whether they will now be able to speak their minds or will feel more disinclined to do so remains to be seen. I don't envy them, tbh. It's bad enough being in the Labour Party, but I am only involved at local level and even then in a very limited capacity.

The SNP "won"? Now who's being patronising?

The Greens, the Lib Dems, and the Labour and Tory MSPs who voted with them would like a word with you.

Galaxy

Crikey lady honoria could you be any more patronising. I and the other women involved in these discussions dont need press barons to tell us anything, we were involved in these issues long before the press became interested. The contempt shown for the public is always lovely to watch though.
I am currently aware of a number of wonen who have been assaulted within the prison service and of legal action being taken with regard to refuges to ensure they provide one, just one, single sex refuge in a geographical area. I am afraid your knowledge on the subject isnt as comprehensive as you seem to think.
As for move along, nothing to see, that's what they said about the tavistock, mermaids, puberty blockers, and oops that wasnt quite accurate was it?

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

If anything my experiences have strengthened my POV as to what the underlying troubles are, and they are, as I stated.

They are not as you stated since my concerns are definitely not transphobia.

Well, the silly buggers have won the day in the Scottish Parliament, just hope that the UK government can do their best to stop it becoming law.
Plenty of angry people outside the building who opposed it tho, which is good.That means less votes for the SNP from many women.

I don't think anyone who has prioritised party loyalty over genuine concerns will say anything now. Why would they?
Their parties will now be full of people who support this, because they always did, and a much greater number of people who support it because they were told it's transphobic not to.

Oreo

Well, the silly buggers have won the day in the Scottish Parliament, just hope that the UK government can do their best to stop it becoming law.
Plenty of angry people outside the building who opposed it tho, which is good.That means less votes for the SNP from many women.

Fewer.

That means less votes for the SNP from many women.

It does Oreo but those who supported independence still do so, just not the SNP.

Oh, what a telling post...

Hasn’t it come to something when Conservative MP’s are the only ones to stand up for women in the UK!
Doesn’t matter why they do, it’s enough that they do.
Am writing to my Labour MP about this, and hope others will do, the LP has to realise that women make up a big part of the voting public.

They're not MPs. (Well, except the one with three jobs.)

Write to your Labour MP if you want. It's got sweet Fanny Adams to do with MPs.

Oh but it has!
Want to make sure it doesn’t happen here and for the LP and Keir Starmer to take this matter seriously and listen to women.
Also to block if possible what the Scottish parliament have just pushed through.

Oreo If you look at the list of SMPs in my last post, you’ll see that the SNP, Scottish Labour and Scottish Tories all had MSPs voting for and against. The Scottish Green MSPs were the only ones who voted unanimously for the Bill.
Now they’ve helped to get the Bill passed, maybe the Scottish Greens might return to being a party who campaigns on environmental issues. But they’ve lost my vote, almost certainly for ever.

Firstly. The Scottish Parliament has "pushed it through" by a majority of MSPs voting for it. We call that democracy up here, what do you call it? Trying to block it will be interesting. Not democracy, certainly.

Secondly. If the majority of English MPs don't vote for it, fair enough. Be sure to remind them of how many other countries are taking this step towards equality, and how this is another way that England will be left behind the rest of the world.

But, England's choice, to be sure. Wonder how the Welsh feel about it.

A correction to my previous post, all four of the Scottish LD MSPs voted for the Bill.

grannydarkhair

Oreo If you look at the list of SMPs in my last post, you’ll see that the SNP, Scottish Labour and Scottish Tories all had MSPs voting for and against. The Scottish Green MSPs were the only ones who voted unanimously for the Bill.
Now they’ve helped to get the Bill passed, maybe the Scottish Greens might return to being a party who campaigns on environmental issues. But they’ve lost my vote, almost certainly for ever.

If anyone's thinking that the Green Party voted for this just to help the SNP out, you might want to reconsider your grasp of Scottish politics.

Galaxy you don't know who I am, you don't know what I do, you don't know what I know, you don't know who I work for. I'm not about to tell you, you'll have to take my word for it that I've been fighting the corner of the abused and vulnerable for years.

I've sat with very disturbed and difficult young people who had to be given all the protection we could to protect them from their pimps, their dealers and their abusive parents. Sometimes those were all the same person. They'll use far worse than a numbered paper certificate and a frock to get to their victims.

I've seen much more than anybody ought to in a lifetime and if I hadn't grown a thick skin I doubt I'd have survived. So don't you dare call me patronising.